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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : End time teaching of Elijah in the last days

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staff
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 Re:

Hi Docs
The Trumpets are thing disputed by many on both sides and I honestly do not have any insight into them as of yet.You are saying that you get my point about the twinkling of an eye and I get your point about the Trumpet and a Pre trib member of SI who has studied seriously the Trumpets would have to answer that.I would be equally interested to hear their answer to your question
So Docs has asked a question,its a fair question has any Pre tribber got an answer?
The Question is:
How can a trumpet to be blown at a pre-trib rapture be intelligently referred to as the last trumpet signalling the resurrection of the dead if it is still to be followed by another trumpet at the second coming?
urs staff

 2017/6/19 20:25Profile
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 Re:

Hi Lysa
I think if you look up J Prasch The Future History of The Church it may help you ,
urs staff

 2017/6/19 20:29Profile
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 Re:

Hi Docs
I am going to look that up though ,urs staff

 2017/6/19 20:32Profile
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 Re:

Thank you. I only offer it because I see it as a very useful chronological marker.

Blessings.


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David Winter

 2017/6/19 20:39Profile
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 Re:

Hi Docs
I am saying for you to look into what I am saying and its only fair the I research ur points as well and no matter what the end actually is,the main problem we all have is Chronology,
ur staff

 2017/6/19 20:44Profile
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 Re:

Quote by Staff: It didnt occur to me before but I suppose it would be fair to ask you do you believe their can be fresh revelation to the Church if it is in line with scripture?

Good question


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Tyler

 2017/6/19 21:04Profile
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 Re:

Think back to the OT- what was the significance of having two witnesses?


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Todd

 2017/6/19 21:04Profile
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 Re:

Got ya.


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David Winter

 2017/6/19 21:08Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
So no i am not a messeneger just a person who reads his bible and the Holy Spirit is involved in that study as he should be.I am trying to answer Lysa as honestly as I can realizing no matter how well we are informed about any subject to do with the bible including me we are looking through a glass dimly and its harder to see than if it was well lit.I will be surprized if the end times church will not be more informed about the end than the church fathers and that it will be in line with the bible.
It didnt occur to me before but I suppose it would be fair to ask you do you believe their can be fresh revelation to the Church if it is in line with scripture?
urs staff




Brother,

Thank you for answering that question, I am sorry if it came across strong but I have talked with unfortunately too many people who really believed they were an "end time prophet" to reveal God's truth to the body of Christ that has never been revealed before. It usually starts out innocently in their lives but over time they because convinced or rather deceived that they are important to share these things and start to emphasis them all the time.

I just felt to give a warning to you about these things and over-emphasis on any truth will lead into error. Of course you will agree that we must talk about our Lord Jesus Christ and His Coming much more then anything else as that is much more important. Also on SI as a moderator I am responsible to try and keep discussions away from heresies or over-emphasis on a repeated topic that becomes unhealthy in its unbalance. I know "lysa" asked you to share about these things so this thread is fine, but I would not want you to continue to post about this over and over again or continue to private message many people on SI to try and share with them your very complex and long views on what the 2 witnesses do etc.

I believe in most cases it should suffice that we agree with the early Church that it could very well be Enoch and Elijah. And taking other typologies like the 12 stones etc simply goes too far and is making more of this then I believe the Lord would want.

Towards your question about "fresh revelation" and can God give this to the Church throughout history. I do believe God has revealed truth to saints through the ages. But it is factual that the influx of thousands of cult groups and false teachings in the last 200 years particularly have all stemmed from the belief of "restorationism" which believes the church apostated after the apostles and now all of a sudden the truth is re-revealed in the modern day through the man of the hour. What is unhealthy about this in short is that they can deny all church history, all creeds, belief in the trinity and other core beliefs because God has shown them the real truth of the apostolic doctrine. I cover in much more detail this in one chapter in this free ebook: https://www.amazon.com/Starting-House-Church-Greg-Gordon-ebook/dp/B06W53XTYN/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1497950088&sr=8-3&keywords=greg+gordon

We have all the epistles written to us in the New Testament which chiefly correct false doctrines creeping into the Church. We have the first 300 years of Church history that dealt with many heresies and had councils and formed creeds to protect the Church against them.

I believe it is actually dangerous to start believing new revelations when we have 2000 years of Church history and we should believe what Christians have always believed. All modern famous TV preachers have to try and come up with fancy new doctrines and ideas so peoples ears will be tickled.

I am not against Bible Study or the Holy Spirit revealing and teaching us, I just believe that primarily it should be in line with Church history. And also the Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus Christ not other things as much. So when people become infuated with something other in the Lord, I personally get concerned and wonder if its really the Holy Spirit leading.

Thank you for hearing me out brother, I pray that this comes across gentle and me just sharing my heart and experiences with you. And that you can see some of the possible dangers of what I am sharing.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/6/20 5:21Profile
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 Re:

Hi Greg,
Thanks for the detailed reply.
I say this now from a concerned point of view and probably ur post has highlight the importance and the problem with having a Tribulation view.
I believe you are being too cautious and have missed the blessing of the scripture by this approach.Each view I have found to have downsides the Pre and the Post .The downside of the Post is being always on the defensive and missing out on the blessing .
On specific point below: Think about what you are saying here and how illogical it is.If you cant take the number 12 and say its typical or symbolical then all symbolism or typology should not be taught.Added to that if you cant take a stone as a symbol then no symbolism should be taught.
When you added them together it is definite typology.
I cant have double standards when it comes to typology
If I leave out the 12stones then I have to leave out Temple typology,the tabernacle,the Ark even the sacrificial system with its implements.For instance discovering Passover tells us about Christ the sacrifice.Passover is full of typology.
....................................................
Quote :And taking other typologies like the 12 stones etc simply goes too far and is making more of this then I believe the Lord would want
........................................................
I will expand on the 12 stones but basically Peter stood up and said that we need to restore the 12 and he needed to be Johns disciple,the very next line the fire falls and this is not strange or connected to Elijah who took 12 stones on mt Carmel and the fire fell?.Even if you dont except that, what then are the 12 stones,wood in order,12 parts of water,the bullock sacrifice,the fire falling a symbol off?What is it all about?
You see if we except that the "bullock" a beast of burden is "Christ the sacrifice burdening our sins" then we have to accept the wood and stones and Elijah as having future typological significance.

It is indeed a very detailed typology right down to little details For instance at Pentecost there were "tongues of fire" and on Mt Carmel their is a reference to a tongue as well in the sense that everything "was licked up"only a tongue could do that.

Doesnt Ephesians 2:20 say that the Apostles were part of the foundations of the Church?and that the Prophets also represented by the ulitmate Prophet according to Jesus which is John?Jesus being the Cornerstone.So the typology of the 12 stones is not new and not going to far or reading into it too much.
Doesnt Revelation 21 say that the foundation of wall of the New Jerusalem had twelve stones each were written the name of the twelve Apostles?.am I saying anything new?
No to reject my simple typology would be reject the more difficult typology of the tabernacle and temple,
Doesnt Jesus call Peter a "Rock"?

One important point you made and I didnt realize was peple believed about the Church apostated after the Apostles death I want to comment on.
I dont believe the Church apostated after they died.
However it became fundamentally different over time and the Apostolic Authority that was there under John the Apostle and Peter and Paul was and has not been their since.
We do not have Apostles like those Apostles in the church today ,we just dont ,we may have Church planting type but we dont have the Apostle with Authority,Could you imagine the difference the Church would be if we did have Paul and Peter and John ?The scriptures that have been left in the sense of the bible didnt replace the Apostolic authority of Paul and Peter but they do describe what that Authority was like.
I believe thats what a coming Elijah would restore.If thats restored Unity is then restored,if unity is restored then the denominations with Christians in them who are not bad in themselves loose importance,
Believing in a Pre trib or Mid trib brings problems and issues but so also does believing in a Post Trib,one of them is missing the blessing that scripture brings,I have to except typology and symbolism completely or not at all.
urs staff

 2017/6/20 6:20Profile





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