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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : End time teaching of Elijah in the last days

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I was stating that the Church (true Church) will come back under Apostolic Doctrine similar to the early church.Denominations will by in large cease due to Apostolic Doctrine.Remember Greg all things although impossible to you are possible to God,even Church unity.



Brother,

You are inferring by what you are sharing that the Church in "most" (perhaps?) of Church history left what you call: Apostolic Doctrine. Does the apostlic doctrine include belief in the Triune God? (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) what in Church history is called Trinity?

It is clear by all the scriptures that you are trying to grapple with to fit with the 2 witnesses seems strange and beyond what the Scriptures themselves or Church history ever interpreted. As I shared early Church fathers agreed that it was Enoch and Elijah. I believe that is sound and very possible. But they did not need to go into elaborate ideas about the 2 witnesses and go beyond what is written.

It makes no sense that the 2 witnesses would be doing all the things you are saying, it simply is putting greater emphasis on them then what God intends.

Are there any other people you know who agree fully with your doctrine of the 2 witnesses? Or is this something of a fresh revelation to the body of Christ and you are the messenger?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/6/19 18:07Profile
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 Re:

Hi Docs
I Think thats a very good question and I do have an answer I believe.
The Church whether it is "kept safe" or "Raptured" will not suddenly disappear in the "blinking of an eye".Let me explain.
When Jesus was translated he was seen for I am guessing but for a minute or two until he went through the clouds,when Elijah was taken by the Chariots it was and event seen and took probably up to a minute ,im guessing.The point is that the events were clearly seen by all that were there.
Why then do we think the rapture is instantaneous and unseen?
Because of "the twinkling of an eye" scripture but it doesnt say the the rapture is in the twinkling of an eye it says our bodies will be changed to glorius bodies in the twinkling of an eye.The going up in the air will be seen by all and will take seconds or minutes like it was with Jesus.
The point is if you being a non Christian and see a Christian right beside you go up in the air ?what effect will it have on you?Will it make you believe that the Christian was right about Christ coming?

f this Church in the wilderness preaches repentance and the soon coming of Christ then suddenly disappears what will be the explanation?
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 2017/6/19 18:12Profile
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 Re:

Hi Greg
Of course it does mean a Triune God thats an usual statement dont you think?
Ok so you are putting too much emphasis on Church history and not enough on what the bible actually says. you only commented on the difficult things but on things that are easily scripturally understood you didnt .So you are not being gracious here .I have explained the simple parrelels between Elijah John and The witnesses and basically you havent commented.
I dont believe Enoch is one of the witnesses as all the powers mentioned are of Elijah only.The only other option is Moses and if you look closely only one of the powers could be of Moses but that same power could be also attributed to Elijah.Enoch is thought of because like Elijah he didnt die and all men are appointed to die once.But if you go strictly by the books then Lazarus died twice so he breaks the rule.
May I add that I think the End times Church will know more about the end times than the Church Fathers,
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 2017/6/19 18:23Profile
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When our bodies are instantaneously changed is at the last trumpet. I Cor 15:50-52 makes this VERY CLEAR. So the bodies of the saints cannot be changed when you say they will because another trumpet is to sound several years later at the second coming of Christ (Matt 24:31). It is the very last trumpet mentioned anywhere thus rendering a trumpet sounding years before incapable of being the trumpet signalling the glorification of the bodies of the saints.

Do you believe the bodies of the saints living and dead will be changed at the last trumpet?


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David Winter

 2017/6/19 18:36Profile
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Hi all,
I am trying to answer your questions as precisely as possible.
Its not easy as most things I studied years ago and some are just coming back to me.
I would like you to comment on what I have said about John The Baptist and the role he played in Pentecost as I think thats a very important scripture even if you dont think Elijah is coming again.
I would also like to you to comment on John pouring the water over Jesus and why Jesus said so all righteousness would be fullfilled anoter important scripture.
If you have compiled the similarities between John ,Elijah and The Two Witneses it would be interesting to know whether you think the similarities are just coincidence or whether its a pattern...
On believing whether Elijah comes back in future then the Church fathers and I are in agreement as the Church Fathers believed one of the witnesses to be Elijah...
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 2017/6/19 18:38Profile
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 Re:

Hi Docs
My point is that because of that Scripture everyone thinks that the rapture will be over in a twinkling but it never says that ,it says that our bodies will be changed in a twinkling of an eye,
The dead will rise and then those that remain ,this will take time is what I am saying but the changing from a corruptible body into a glorius one will be in a twinkling instantaneous,
no matter when the rapture occurs pre mid or post.Look at the two witnesses themselves they rose and everyone saw them for a brief time.The changing of the bodies to new ones is only one part of the rapture when ever it happens it isnt the complete process..no matter when the trumpet blasts.
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 2017/6/19 18:56Profile
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Staff,

You did not answer this question.

---
Are there any other people you know who agree fully with your doctrine of the 2 witnesses? Or is this something of a fresh revelation to the body of Christ and you are the messenger?
---


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 2017/6/19 19:05Profile
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Thanks Lysa,
I didnt expect this today ....just what I needed lol.
Can I comment on the following scripture
It is obvious when u read this carefully that the witnesses dont actually breath fire(literal fire)The fire that proceeds from their mouth is the word of God,the scriptures.
One other thing about these verses is that Elijah caused waters to turn red in the old testament.

And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.
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 2017/6/19 19:14Profile
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Hi Greg
Sorry I missed that as their was alot of posts
My answer is I how do I Know but id say not .I just studied the bible and the Holy Spirit started showing me scriptures and I checked them out and found them to be true in my opinion.Whether it is a fresh revelation or not I dont know.I would be lying to you if I said that this didnt happen though.
I would be seriously surprized if he has not being saying the same thing all over the world.I would say their are many but I am only guessing.When I talk to my friends particularly my Pastor a good friend its easy to communicate but on a forum their are so many crossed wires and blind alleys you have to go down and back up to get ur point across.Jacob Prasch has some failings but when it comes to teaching through a Jewish perspective he is very good I find and I would be surprized if you talked to him personally that he would diagree with me.Chuck Missler who is also on SI would believe in a coming Elijah I believe.People tend to accept what I say to be true when they look into it and especially when they are not entrenched in Tribulation view.
All I am saying is what has been said in the past Elijah is coming again.The Church Fathers said it,modern day preachers said it and I am saying it too.
I just expanded on what he is going to be doing.
So no i am not a messeneger just a person who reads his bible and the Holy Spirit is involved in that study as he should be.I am trying to answer Lysa as honestly as I can realizing no matter how well we are informed about any subject to do with the bible including me we are looking through a glass dimly and its harder to see than if it was well lit.I will be surprized if the end times church will not be more informed about the end than the church fathers and that it will be in line with the bible.
It didnt occur to me before but I suppose it would be fair to ask you do you believe their can be fresh revelation to the Church if it is in line with scripture?
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 2017/6/19 19:50Profile
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 Re:

I knew what your main point was staff I just think you are ignoring mine or are just unable to see it right. You said, "No matter when the trumpets sound." Let's look at that.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET. For THE TRUMPET will sound, and THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED incorruptible, and we shall all be changed. (I Cor 15:52)

So the translation of all saints living and dead (the dead shall be raised) takes place at the LAST TRUMPET. Therefore how can the saints living and dead be raised at a trumpet seven or three and half years before another final last trumpet is to blow at the second coming of Christ several years later (Matt 24:31)? The question is very basic and understandable. How can a trumpet to be blown at a pre-trib rapture be intelligently referred to as the last trumpet signalling the resurrection of the dead if it is still to be followed by another trumpet at the second coming?


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 2017/6/19 20:02Profile





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