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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : End time teaching of Elijah in the last days

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passerby
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 687


 Re:

I think Christinyou has a point, the endtime reference for Elijah is in Malachi not in Revelation and it is primarily related regarding Israel who is up to now is waiting for their Messiah. They do not believe in Jesus but they will believe in someone else to their own peril.

 2017/6/19 6:40Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi Philip

If you read the Pentecost verses(the so called Birthday of the Church)
you will see that Pentecost comes from John not Jesus.
Jesus is the sacrifice that made it happen.
John is the Elijah that rounded up the twelve stones and poured water over the sacrifice and then the fire fell like it did on Mt Carmel.
John is the man that preached that "The Messiah" was coming soon.
Unlike the false Messiahs and the False Elijahs mentioned by Greg earlier John as will any future Elijah point humbly to the Coming Messiah not to themselves.
We see that Peter's qualification for an Apostle is that like himself and the other 11 Apostles they had to have come under Johns Ministry.

Look at the similarities

Mt Carmel
A person with the Spirit of Elijah
Comes out of Nowhere
Wears A specific garment
Comes preaching in the wilderness
Causes drought for 3 1/2 years
12 Stones
Wood placed in Order
Water Poured over the sacrifice and the 12 stones
Fire Fell and consumed
Crosses the Jordan
Preaches/Ministers to a wicked King Ahab
Has a conflict with a wicked woman who wants his head

Time of Christ
A person with the Spirit of Elijah
Wears a specific garment
Comes preaching in the wilderness
Comes out of Nowhere(although we know the story of his birth)
Causes the Blessing for 3 1/2 years
3 1/2 Years is associated with him through Jesus Minstry
12 Stones the Apostles
A Cross made a specific way made of Wood
Water poured over Jesus the Sacrifice
Fire Fell on Pentecost immediately after the 12th stone is restored and had to have come from John or Elijah if you care to accept him
Baptised at the same place Elijah Crosses
Preaches/Minister to a wicked King
Has a conflict with a wicked woman who gets his head

Are these things coincidence?If so then all the temple typology is just coincidence!
If you want to know about what is going to happen then you have to find out what originally happened.

The future Spirit of Elijah whether it be just one man or the complete Church will follow the same pattern.

urs staff

 2017/6/19 6:46Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
I think the most dissapointing aspect of your reply Greg is that instead of looking at the plain points I have made all valid all scriptural,instead of answering where you think the scripture doesnt add up you choose to take the above route.




Brother,

I was just showing clearly there is a danger that so many cult groups (many more then what I mentioned) used this scripture to deceive people with strange ideas and new doctrines. The Epistles do not mention a great promence to this belief, only revelation states there will be two witnesses. The exhortation is not to look for the two witnesses but to look for Jesus Christ in the air. He will come for his people.

It is just a matter of keeping a balance and not emphasizing this beyond measure. Some of the earliest believers had a belief that Elijah was one of the two witnesses, I myself believe it is Elijah and Enoch.

--

St. Irenaeus (140 - 202 AD) was a student of St. Polycarp, who in turn was a disciple of the Apostle John. Because of this, it is reasonable and prudent to believe that what St. Irenaeus tells us is of Apostolic origin. On the whereabouts of Enoch and Elijah, Irenaeus says the following:

"The disciples of the Apostles say that they (Enoch and Elijah) whose living bodies were taken up from the earth, have been placed in an earthly paradise, where they will remain until the end of the world." 2 (Ibid, Page 466. Adversus Haereses, Liber 4, Cap. 30).


St. Ephraem (306 - 373 AD) "And when the Son of Perdition has drawn to his purpose the whole world, Enoch and Elijah shall be sent that they might confute the Evil One." 9 (Birch, Page 470. Syri, III, Col. 188, Sermo II).

St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD) "It is a familiar theme in the conversation and heart of the faithful, that in the last days before the Judgment the Jews shall believe in the true Christ, that is, our Christ, by means of this great and admirable prophet Elijah, who shall expound the Law to them. For not without reason do we hope that before the coming of our Judge and Saviour, Elijah shall come, because we have good reason to believe that he is now alive. For, as Scripture most distinctly informs us, he was taken up from this life in a chariot of fire. When, therefore, he is come, he will give a spiritual explanation of the Law which the Jews at present understand carnally, and shall thus, "turn the heart of the father to the son", that is, the heart of the fathers to the children. And the meaning is that the sons, that is, the Jews, shall understand the Law as the fathers, that is, the prophets, and among them Moses himself, understood it...that the Jews also, who had previously hated, should then love the Son who is our Christ." 10 (Ibid, Pages 469-470. The City of God, Book 20, Chapter 29).

St. John Damascene (676 - 749 AD) "And Enoch and Elijah the Thesbite will be sent and they shall 'turn the heart of the fathers to the children', that is to say, turn the Synagogue to our Lord Jesus Christ and the preaching of the Apostles. And they will be destroyed by the Antichrist." 11 (Ibid, Page 473. De Fide Orthodoxa)



St. Thomas Aquinas (1225 - 1274 AD) "Ejijah was raised into the aerial, not the empyrean heaven, which is the abode of the Saints, and in like manner Enoch was carried away to a terrestrial paradise, where he and Elijah, it is believed, will live together until the coming of the Antichrist." 4 (Ibid, Page 263. Summae, iii, Q. xlix, art. 5).

--


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/6/19 6:51Profile
Lysa
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 Re:

Quote:
by docs
Why would all or any of this matter to a church which you advocate will not be here for any of it because it will have been raptured before any of it occurs?



Quote:
by staff
As to the Pre trib question.
The 7 years are made up of two halves and its only the second half which when the Judgement comes.The first half is a normal time in the sense of eating and drinking and marrying and giving in marriage etc



Staff,

I've read in other discussions where you stated that you were mid-trib. Again, not accusatory, just trying to make sense because what Docs said is true.

Also, I found the sermon you spoke of on youtube and will listen to it!! God bless


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Lisa

 2017/6/19 6:57Profile
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Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi Passerby,
I think I answered that point in Christinyou post.
Basically John is the very beginning of the Church and will be the very end of the Church as well.
It is clear that God has a plan for Israel and that only when things get totally desperate will they turn to him,
The prophesy in Malachi is for the great and terrible day of the Lord which are more than one day,
It is also clear that God has a plan for the Church and this plan started with a Pentecost that originated with John and where Jesus was the sacrifice.Jesus needed someone to make a way for him,someone to get the Jewish people expectant,someone who did some groundwork or someone to get the stage ready swept and clean and in order for the Main Performer Jesus
urs staff

 2017/6/19 7:01Profile
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 Re:

Hi Greg
Repectfully I was only pointing out just because their is Error doesnt mean that the teaching is wrong it only means that the teaching has been corrupted by men or angels.

The fact that you believe that one of the two witnesses is Elijah and that he is coming in the future probably indicates to you that their is a future Elijah of the end times.
All I am explaining is what he does and why he is coming and why he is so important in the end.
I am explaining what I believe I have been shown through scripture and its up to everyone to look and examine it for yourselves
Again Elijah wont come and say look at me but will come and say look at Christ,a crucial difference between the false and the good,
urs staff

 2017/6/19 7:09Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi Lysa
I view mid trib as pre trib and also Im not sure whether the Church will be raptured or just "kept safe" like in Noahs day,
I would if pushed come down on the side of the rapture because of the typology of Mt Carmel,Either way I dont believe we will come under Gods Judgements in fact i think we would just get in the way
urs staff

 2017/6/19 7:14Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2149


 Re: End time teaching of Elijah in the last days




Jesus reply,

And they asked him, “Why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” And he said to them, “Elijah does come first to restore all things. And how is it written of the Son of Man that he should suffer many things and be treated with contempt? But I tell you that Elijah has come, and they did to him whatever they pleased, as it is written of him.”
Mark 9:11-13

And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.
Matthew 17:10-13

 2017/6/19 7:35Profile
staff
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 Re:

Hi Savannah,
NASB
9 As they were coming down from the mountain, He gave them orders not to relate to anyone what they had seen, [f]until the Son of Man rose from the dead. 10 They [g]seized upon [h]that statement, discussing with one another [i]what rising from the dead meant. 11 They asked Him, saying, “Why is it that the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 12 And He said to them, “Elijah does first come and restore all things. And yet how is it written of the Son of Man that He will suffer many things and be treated with contempt? 13 But I say to you that Elijah has [j]indeed come, and they did to him whatever they wished, just as it is written of him.”

What I take from that is this and I have looked at alot in the past
John is dead at this stage but Jesus says "Elijah Does Come"
My understanding is what he means is Elijah does come before the Messiah" and then explains John was the Elijah before the Messiah.
What it doesnt say is that Elijah or the Messiah are not coming again.
What it may be saying is that Elijah Does come in the future and we would have to know exactly what Elijah has to restore and see did John fullfill all of the restoration
I cant remember whether the "Does" is considered past present or future tense.I'l check again.Why did he not say did come straight out ,does answers the question as well granted but "did come" is the perfect answer as John was dead at the time.Every jot and tittle counts I believe.
When you take into account how Jewish prophesy is understood then it has a future fullfillment.
How they look at is one fullfillment,then another and so on with an ultimate fullfillment .The previous fullfillments tell something about the ultimate fullfillment.
urs staff

 2017/6/19 8:50Profile









 Re: Comoaring Scripture With Scripture

Brethren consider a simple comparison of scripture with scripture. Below is the prophecy of the coming of Elijah in Malachi.

Malichi 4:5-6

••• Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible, day of the Lord. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse.•••

Luke 1:11-17 is considered the fulfillment of the Malachi prophecy.

••• And an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing to the right of the altar of incense. Zacharias was troubled when he saw the angel, and fear gripped him.  But the angel said to him "Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your petition has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will give him the name John. You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth.  For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb. And he will turn many of the sons of Israel back to the Lord their God.  It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”•••

The above passage out of Luke is the birth of John the Baptist. In Matthew 11:11-15 Jesus testifies,

••• Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men  take it by force.  For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.  [[[And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is "Elijah who was to come;]]] He who has ears to hear, let him hear.•••

Brothers and sisters please note the words of Jesus above. He testifies, the Son of God himself. The One who wrote the scriptures. He testifies that John the baptist is the Elijah who was to come.  

Again in Matthew 17:10-13 the answer of Jesus is in response to the disciples questions,

•••And His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that "Elijah must come first?”  And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also "the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” [[[Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist.]]]•••

We have none other than a testimony of the Son of God Himself who says that John the Baptist is the Elijah who was to come.  We can surmise from the above scriptures that Elijah already came to Israel in the person of John the Baptist. This from the testimony of Jesus Himself.  This is the simple teaching of the word of God itself.  This is the teaching of Jesus Himself. 

Simply my thiughts.

Bro Blaine 

•••Edited brackets inserted for emphasis. Unable to underline.•••


 2017/6/19 9:37





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