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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Trinity and TD Jakes

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dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Quote:
Maybe it is not so much the depth or comprehension of our understanding of our God (not to negate the need for knowledge and understanding as Solomon spares no space in Proverbs exhorting us to get understanding and knowledge with "all of our getting"), but the heat and fervency, the passion and the overwhelming crush of ardent desire that fills our hearts, souls, and minds, that spurs each of us on in the pursuit...to know Him intimately, passionately, personally

wow!
That's a lofty goal but one we must all take. I believe your right. It would seem that we are enabled by His Spirit according to the light or understanding we have , however flawed that may be. A good example is that of D L Moody.


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D.Miller

 2005/6/20 14:37Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
This is true, but isn't it also true that if a faulty theology is followed to it's naturall conclusion it will lead to a faulty life?


Yes, but that does not justify the 'thought police'.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/6/20 14:41Profile
jeremyhulsey
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Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

Quote:
Yes, but that does not justify the 'thought police'.



Duely noted:-)


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2005/6/20 14:44Profile









 Re:

What do people have to say about the 7 Lamp Stands which are the 7 spirits of God? What do they make of Genesis when it says "let us make man after our own image"? Just curious.

Rejoicing in Him Whom I don't have to understand to love,

Lahry

 2005/6/21 7:31
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Yes, but that does not justify the 'thought police'.



This is very true. A few things I have observed is that there are those who have no idea how to explain deep doctrinal issues such as the Trinity and yet they still love God. If you asked them they would probably spill out all sorts of stuff and make us cringe if we let it. God still honors their faith. Some people simply don't care to be honest. It is not the area where they choose to express their faith.

Which leads me to my second observation and it is that it seems that some people do not have a real relationship with God- they express their religion in terms of studying and arguing theology. The whole of their Christendom seems to be expressed in terms of doctrines and a preoccupation with heresy. What a horrible way to express your faith in Christ in my estimation. To play on what Bro. Ron said- it is as though they walk around, not with their gun in the holster, but twirling it on their finger cocked and loaded- looking for a doctrinal shootout. When they fire their round and fit their foe they then blow the smoke from the end of the barrel. And it don't edify. It opens up questions and strifes about words that the folk left to themselves would never think of. Finney deals wth this and talks about how it is a sore distraction for preachers to bring up doctrines and shoot them down that noone even heard of.

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/21 8:29Profile
luke133
Member



Joined: 2005/4/28
Posts: 13


 Re:

I have studied some about this heresy and would highly reccomend a book by Gregory Boyd, ONENESS PENTECOSTALS AND THE TRINITY. I think that it is important to understand that this view has an undeniable effect on the adherents soteriology. 1John 2.23 says that whoever denies the Son does not have the Son or the Father. This doctrine in seeking to preserve the deity of Christ and the oneness of God destroy the Biblical doctrine of the Son. This teaching essentially denies the Incarnation, saying that the Son is simply Jesus' humanity and the Jesus is the Father taking over this human body at times. So rather than teaching that God became man oneness doctrine teaches that God just put on a human mask from time to time. Needless to say it can get a little difficult at times trying to distinguish whether or not Jesus is speaking as God or man. Predictably though the modalists maintain that whenever Jesus alludes to His divinity He is speaking as God and whenever He makes distinction between Himself and the Father He is speaking as man. This is one of the BIG problems with this doctrine and for this reason Oneness followers should be seen in the same category as Russelites(JW's) and Mormons, sincerely deceived people in need of the Truth.

 2005/6/21 12:41Profile
luke133
Member



Joined: 2005/4/28
Posts: 13


 Re:

By the way has anyone else noticed that the Pentecostal Sermons ad on the left hand side of the page is a oneness ministry?

 2005/6/21 16:48Profile









 Re: You know.....

....I suppose I am one of the few who have never read a book by "bishop" Jakes. I've never listened to him speak more than 5 mins. It's not that I have anything against him, I just have never been led by the Spirit to pay attention to what he has to say.

Mega ministries are very difficult to manage. Having every word that is spoken by yourself scrutinized for accuracy is not something everyone could cope with. I don't envy him at all. Getting along here is tough enough. :)

When I stop and think of all the years that Billy Graham has been preaching the simple Gospel message and yet has been for the most part uncorrupted, that's an awesome life. He is probably one of the very few that have gotten through such a ministry unscathed by the high volume of cash flow.

Please pray for those you see on TV and in the "big" meetings. They have much pressure upon them and need all the grace they can get. No, I did not say agree with their doctrinal discrepancies. Just pray that they will walk with God more than they walk with man.

Humbly before Him,

Lahry

 2005/6/22 8:03
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re:

Quote:
This doctrine in seeking to preserve the deity of Christ and the oneness of God destroy the Biblical doctrine of the Son. This teaching essentially denies the Incarnation, saying that the Son is simply Jesus' humanity and the Jesus is the Father taking over this human body at times. So rather than teaching that God became man oneness doctrine teaches that God just put on a human mask from time to time.



I don't think they are "seeking" to do anything of the sort. Most oneness guys I know will jump at the chance to discuss this issue with just about anybody. The problem is that they have been rejected as heretics by many who have never taken the time and persuade them with Scripture.

Again, I think that BOTH sides get WAY too specific in their definitions of the Godhead. Or at least it seems easy to go beyond Scripture to explain what we think Scripture means.

Quote:
This is one of the BIG problems with this doctrine and for this reason Oneness followers should be seen in the same category as Russelites(JW's) and Mormons, sincerely deceived people in need of the Truth.



If you are so quick to do this, then this is on your head. However, it is not so simple for me to categorize them in this way. There are some HUGE fundamental differences between Oneness Pentecostals and the Cults. The biggest one is that they hold to Sola Scriptura.

Here's the tragedy: Most people won't take the time to go through the Scriptures with them. Unlink the JW's and Mormons I have talked to, the Oneness bunch WILL listen to and believe Scripture. (At least most of them)

So I think you have your work cut out for you, luke133. ;-)

RT

 2005/6/22 14:22Profile
roman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/18
Posts: 41


 Re:

TO: ALL

Lately I have been in deep thought of this "Trinity." All the more when I heard of a doctrine that states this way:

1) The Father is God
2) Jesus is God the Son; He is also God
3) The Holy Spirit is not God but the Spirit of God.

They don't use the word "Trinity" as we call it but they just simply call it as God the Father, God the Son, Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God.

This doctrine says that Jesus has a beginning. He was born of God. One passage they are using is Proverbs 8:22 to 36 and I believe John 3:16 (begotten Son).

Question #1: What passage that speaks/proves that Jesus has no beginning?

Question #2: Any thought on "begotten Son" in John 3:16?

Question #3: Is there anywhere in the Bible that calls the Spirit of God as God?

Question #4: What's wrong in not calling the Holy Spirit as God but calling it as Spirit of God as the Bible calls it?


Thanks much.
Roman

 2005/6/23 2:08Profile





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