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 Heaven Bound, or Hell Sent?

I know we all come from different backgrounds. But, i'd like each and everyone's thought on this.

I'm not trying to cause a riot, writing this. But instead just cause a nice 'thought provocting' topic.

John Paul II where is he going/at ??

Heaven or hell?

His works were profound, as many know, but still held to 'i put all my hope in mary' as he was quoted, and again calling her the 'queen of heaven'.

I'm not trying to say 'by grace' or 'by works'. But what is your opinion on his 'afterlife' experience.

Same goes with Mother Theresa.

Where is she at/going?

 2005/6/13 21:49

 Re: Heaven Bound, or Hell Sent?

According to John 3:3 and Luke 13:3 unless a man repents from all his sin and is supernaturally born-again into the family and Kingdom of God, he will never see Heaven. No one is exempt from this. Neither pastor, nor missionary, nor pope. My hope and prayer is that John Paul and as well as Theresa were born-again believers, as well as for everyone else in the Catholic Church and any Church for that matter.

 2005/6/13 22:07

Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re: Heaven Bound, or Hell Sent?

Just came across this article today. Thought that it would contribute a very ancient Christian opinion to this discussion:

"The Pope's Death: A Defining Moment"
By Pastor Ralph Ovadal, April 1, 2005

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" - Isaiah 5:20

As I write this, Pope John Paul II is near death. Once he draws his last breath, a Vatican official will lightly tap three times upon the deceased pontiff's forehead with a golden hammer and call his name. Upon receiving no reply, the cardinal chamberlain will remove John Paul's fisherman's ring and smash it. Thus begins the pagan Romish spectacle of choosing and crowning a new pope.

The pope's death is the dawn of a defining moment for all who claim to be born-again followers of Jesus Christ, whether they call themselves Protestant or evangelical or just plain Christian. It does not take a prophet to state that the passing of Pope John Paul II will trigger a flood of statements and discussions among Christian pro-family leaders, talk show hosts, and nationally known preachers. It also does not take a prophet to know that the dead pope will have mountains of compliments heaped upon him by many of those same individuals. Going a step further, it is safe to say that the presupposition underlying those eulogies and the recurring theme at the heart of them will be that the pope was a wonderful, godly man, a Christian who is now in heaven.

As I said, this is a defining moment. It is, in fact, an evangelistic moment catching the attention of virtually the entire world. What should any true follower of Jesus say about such a man as Pope John Paul II? What should one who has assumed a role as a shepherd of Christ's flock or a spokesman for His Church say about the pope? Plainly and simply put, they should say that John Paul II was a counterfeit, a minister of Satan (2 Corinthians 11:13-15). They should tell the truth that he was an accursed man who deceived millions. Those who cannot tell the truth should not say anything. Those evangelical leaders who feel so compelled to express their affection and respect for Pope John Paul II do not seem to know or care that they are at the same time showing anything but love for the Roman Catholic people whom the pope has deceived and enslaved. They are certainly not showing respect for the Word of God which the pope, that man of sin, trod underfoot and the blood of Jesus which he counted as an unholy thing.

The pope preached the false Roman Catholic gospel which features a false Christ who cannot save without the aid of priests practicing pagan rituals and penitents performing works and a pagan goddess sharing her favors. The pope blasphemed the Lord Jesus Christ as a way of life, most especially during the mass when he claimed to call down our Great High Priest from the right hand of the Majesty in heaven and turn Him into a wafer and a goblet of wine. The pope blasphemed against the Holy Spirit, claiming to displace Him as Christ's substitute and voice on this earth. The pope championed the cause of the Roman Catholic Virgin Mary goddess. He prayed to her, worshiped her, and adored her. He consecrated the nations to her. He endorsed and reveled in her demonic apparitions. He credited her with saving his life.

There is so much which could be said about Pope John Paul II, about his corrosive, damning influence and his pagan practices. But why belabor the point? The truth has been apparent for all to see for twenty-six years. And simply put, the pope was a pope. The nature of popes is the nature of antichrist because they are antichrist just as the Roman Catholic Church is the woman who rides the beast as described in Revelation chapter 17. That the pope and his church are evil is an understatement. The Word of God shows the pope to be an accursed man no matter what good causes he may have championed.

The tragedy which is upon us is not the death of the pope, although neither will we revel in the death nor damnation of any man. The tragedy which is upon us and which the pope's death will clearly emphasize once more is the dearth of integrity, discernment, and courage among evangelical—or should I say neo-evangelical—leaders in our nation. Remaining silent at this time, as reprehensible as that is, would be a vast improvement to the message many such leaders will feel the need to proclaim. The world's impression that Pope John Paul II was a true Christian man leading the true Christian Church, teaching the true Christian gospel will be strongly reinforced by the accolades heaped upon the pope by evangelical leaders. At the same time, the great milling mixture of sheep and goats which fill up the evangelical churches in our land will be further compromised and confused. The death of Pope John Paul II is a defining moment which will reveal the hearts of many who present themselves as born-again, blood-washed followers of Jesus Christ but by their words will reveal that they are either not His or that they should not publicly represent Him.

Reams of paper could be expended documenting the heresy of Pope John Paul II and citing the Scripture verses proving that such a man is not a Christian, not a servant of God, and will not be a citizen of heaven. But in reality, Galatians chapter one, verses eight and nine should settle that matter:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Pastor Ralph Ovadal
Pilgrims Covenant Church

 2005/6/14 2:26Profile

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


According to John 3:3 and Luke 13:3 unless a man repents from all his sin and is supernaturally born-again into the family and Kingdom of God, he will never see Heaven. No one is exempt from this. Neither pastor, nor missionary, nor pope.

and then what about the children and the intellectually handicapped and those who have never heard...?

Ron Bailey

 2005/6/14 2:58Profile

Joined: 2004/7/9
Posts: 315
The Netherlands


Philologos wrote:

and then what about the children and the intellectually handicapped and those who have never heard...?

That is a great question! If you have some time, I really would like to hear your thoughts about this, since I conclude from the way you ask the question that you have an opinion...

I wrote a little bit about this in another thread: [url=]What about all the unsaved Indians?[/url].

The following verse gave me a better inside inside in this matter:

And the rest of the people, the priests, the Levites, the porters, the singers, the Nethinims, and all they that had separated themselves from the people of the lands unto the law of God, their wives, their sons, and their daughters, every one having knowledge, and having understanding... (Nehemiah 10:28, note: my Bible translates the bolded part of verse like this: all those who had come to the year of distinction)

Those that had not come yet to the year of distinction didn't give their oath to keep the law of God and walk in His ways. They simply couldn't.

It's difficult to draw a line in this matter, saying: "until 3 years of age all children go to heaven". It differs from child to child. The one is able to understand the Gospel at the age of 5, another is able to understand it at the age of 8.

This is also a reason for me to believe that most of the people with a intellectual handicap will surely go to heaven, because some of them are not able to distinguish "good" from "evil".

In Christ,


 2005/6/14 3:16Profile

Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is 'the book' of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, [u]according to their works.[/u]

Judgemnt is according to our deeds. Salvation is by Christ.

 2005/6/14 5:57Profile

 Re: As a former Catholic...

...saved by grace through faith, I'll have to stand with RT and Pastor Ovadal. It's blunt, but true.
While it is not my place or anyone elses to judge the final destination of any man, we can judge the doctrine and what is publically proclaimed.
I was born into a catholic family. My folks did without many things to send my brothers, sisters, and I all to catholic school. God bless them for the good education I got. Thank you mom and dad.
I never once heard from the catholic church, catechism, or school that I must be born again.
I wont' go into the complete detail of my true conversion. I will say that in my quest for God, I met some charasmatic catholics who carried bibles. I asked the why? "Soul food", was the reply. So I bought me a bible and began reading it. I came to a place where I had to decide between the Word of God and the catholic church. I could not reconcile the two. Thank God, I chose His Holy Word. Thank You Jesus. Alleluia.
I have family and aquaintances who are yet catholic. It is a comfortable religion and is very appealing to the flesh. Flesh is destined for corruption and the grave. I pray that God will somehow mercifully hear my prayers and save them all. They have some really tough choices to make.
I do not hate or despise anyone. But I simply cannot but agree with Pastor Ovadal. Truth to the exclusion of truth is an untruth. There's way too much leaven in the catholic church. Heresy is just that, no matter what kind of robe you hang on it.
So, to RT, thank you for your courage and for the fine article you shared with us. How can we say we love, if we withhold the truth that a lie may be believed by those who will perish believing it?

 2005/6/14 8:18


Yes, Yes. Truth is like Salt into a Wound at times.

And that's what this topic is for some people.

I strongly believe 'John Paul II' is in hell. And going to be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

I really liked that article.

My mom's side of the family is catholic. All it is, is a religion. No different than Judism. No emotion, no passion, No Christ communion.

My grandfather said 'im going to hell'. He said it soooo casually. Oh, how my heart breaks for him and my family. Sucked into the Lie.

Any more opinions brothers and sisters?

 2005/6/14 18:33

 Re: YIMG,

Take care to salt your light with love.

 2005/6/14 20:23


No other way to give anything to anyone.

Is WITH love.

Tounges/Prophesy/Teaching/Truth etc..etc... is NOTHING without LOVE.

With love many things happen.

Any other opinions on the main topic?

 2005/6/14 20:53

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