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Joined: 2002/12/11 Posts: 39795 Canada
Online! | Re: | | Brother Frank,
I did read your original post a few times and these questions just simply were there that I think I would rather have you answer then try and post what I clearly think you are saying.
Let us not forget Tozer was a minister in the Alliance Church denomination.
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Do you mean that "his works" is what is called the "Church" whether denominational or other forms of Church associations?
Labelling all denominations and sects of Christianity as theologies of men. Then what is the truth, who ever had it in Church history?
is there a new revealed way that we have to understand now as the right way to do Church? _________________ SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| 2017/3/28 15:12 | Profile |
| Re: | | Bro Greg,
I will let Tozer's words speak for themselves. They seem plain enough to most I would imagine. My understanding and my faith are derived from the Scriptures alone, for they alone are infallible. Men are fallible and in their own vain imaginations they mount up error upon error.
The Alliance was not a denomination and made pains that everyone should know that. We have had this discussion before and if we still disagree then let that disagreement stand. People can do their own research into whether the Alliance was a denomination. We have many tools at our disposal now to research topics.............bro Frank |
| 2017/3/28 15:44 | |
| Re: | | ...Then what is the truth, who ever had it in Church history?...
What is the truth. The truth is in Jesus.
Johm 14:6
Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the father, but through me.
Eph. 4:21
just as truth is in Jesus.
Who ever had it in church history.
Presumably those who believed in Jesus who is the truth.
Bro Blaine |
| 2017/3/28 17:54 | |
| Re: | | The C&MA , The Christian and Missionary Alliance always considered themselves a para church. A para church, for those who do not know, is believers who work independently of local churches but oftentimes alongside them, but certainly independent of them.
A.B.Simpson, the founder, was himself a Presbyterian and he left that denomination. The C&MA became a denomination in 1965, two full years after the death of A.W.Tozer. (No coincidence there)
There are still many little missionary halls in Scotland. They are para churches, independent of local denominations but oftentimes working alongside them if called to..........bro Frank |
| 2017/3/29 6:54 | | noone Member
Joined: 2008/3/17 Posts: 75 United States
| Re: | | As long as a person is trying to figure out the right way to "do church" and "what the pattern is" and is needing an example to follow they will be chasing their tail in circles for a very long time. To truly come to the understanding of "church" I think you need to lay down your church history books and only focus on Jesus and His words and scripture only.
Denominations, Non Denoms, etc are theologies of Men..."I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas." There is SOME truth to each one I'm sure, but remove the Sunday morning service and the titles, the salaries, the sign out front and see what happens to it... maybe just maybe Jesus will be the only thing left to land on.
I dare to say that almost every believer has a bias opinion of "church" because of being involved in the organization of "church" and every idea and thought of how to do "church" is birthed out of that bias. How about forgetting what lies behind, what other people have done in "church history" and only read the scripture and listen for God's voice and see what He leads you to. I dare say it will not look like anything you have ever seen before. If the 1st century church truly had it ALL together and was the Perfect example of how to do "church" then where is their presence today in those locales? Maybe some of what was said in the Bible about the 1st believers were not to follow, but for a warning about what not to do. A true Acts 2 movement may occur, but man seems to corrupt it. Read Bartelman's accounts of Azusa for a modern day example.
God will not pour His new wine into an old wine skin. Modern day "churchianity" is steeped in OT tradition and that belief system with one foot in the Old and one foot in the New. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. This is not about church buildings, house churches etc it is about landing on Christ as our all in all, about being led by His Spirit. "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." Everything in its season. Allow God to move in His season and timing, not plant a permanent place of "church business" hire a pastor, build a building or name it and expect God to do the same thing over and over from here to eternity. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. Freedom to move as He moves. I have been a part of 2 "things" that were beautiful in their time, but guess what they both came to an end and no one claimed it and tried to "start" a "church" we all knew the season was over, but the FRUIT produced was eternal!
I personally like to read church History and I used to want to re create what I read about, but no longer is that desire there. Only the desire for Jesus and His kindgom will survive, what is born of flesh will produce flesh, what is born of the Spirit will produce the Spirit.
Who can we look to in the past "what is the truth, who ever had it in Church history? " We only see in part... only parts had parts of the truth, no one has the market cornered on "truth." JESUS ALONE IS THE ONLY TRUTH and I know that I see dimly. All these "churches" believe their way is the truth... that is a major problem. _________________ Tina
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| 2017/3/31 15:17 | Profile |
| Re: | | That's a good word Noone..............bro bro Frank |
| 2017/3/31 17:45 | | brothagary Member
Joined: 2011/10/23 Posts: 2556
| Re: | | 17But in giving this instruction, I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. 19For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.
Paul clearly says there must be divisions and factions among Christians .
So certain divisions are good , when they act to show those who are approved ,,,, with out division we would all be labelled, romon catholic , which would be a huge issue for most bible believers... |
| 2017/4/1 20:07 | Profile | brothagary Member
Joined: 2011/10/23 Posts: 2556
| Re: | | I remember leaders in the misonary allance preach about them being a fundamentalist Christian group, as compared to a liberal group, showing a clear division in doctrine and what have you , so to say there was no division with mission allance, and other forms of Christians is pure ballony, or poppy cock.... |
| 2017/4/1 20:13 | Profile |
| Re: | | No one said there was no division within the mission alliance Gary. Looks like your having an argument with yourself, knock yourself out, or, maybe have a baloney sandwich :) ..........bro Frank |
| 2017/4/1 22:19 | | brothagary Member
Joined: 2011/10/23 Posts: 2556
| Re: | | Not talking about divisions in their group , but division with liberisim , which tozer clearly divided him self from as did other leaders in that group , there was a clear division of us weather fundamentalists, or conservatives, and them the liberals ......
Making lite of the matter frank with sarcasm is quite immature ......
Maybe I should have used the word dun or rubbish , instead of ballony,,,
I thought the Americans would no what I meant there ....... |
| 2017/4/2 0:51 | Profile |
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