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ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Laodicea

Rev. 3:14 NASB
"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:"

Much has been written, said, about the church at Laodicea because of its parallels with current Christianity. It seems this insight cannot be exhausted because of the perceptions people have of prevailing culture and how it is so well described in the following verses. Today I would like to share how I consider Jesus' description of Himself is so deep, so profound - so profound that it cannot be exhausted.

He describes Himself as the "Beginning of the Creation of God". I gather this means the creation was His idea, he was there from the get-go, designed it, supervised it (I think the Holy Spirit was very active in this process), made it.

Jesus knew from before the beginning man would sin and the remedy he will set in place to redeem man. Now think about this for a minute or two or all day. I do not know of ANYONE who will make anything that he know will come back and cause him/her ANY suffering. No one. Not only that, he made the human body to suffer pain when in conflict with nature. He knew how painful it would be to be nailed onto a cross and left there to die. He knew that a crown of thorns on his head would hurt. (Hey! let a man get a sliver and the entire world comes to a stand still!!) Jesus knew all this, designed the body to experience pain, so what is in it for HIM that he designed it such? And how is this to impact mankind?

This reality stumps my imagination, my logical mind, my comprehension - it is too far above me, too great, too awesome...

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/4 11:45Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re: Laodicea-Rev. 3;14

Rev. 3:14 NASB
"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:"

Jesus portrays himself as the "faithful and true witness."

True - absolute truth, no fudging of facts.

Faithful witness - says what he saw, witnessed.

Hmmmm...I had had to wonder how would people act, respond if Jesus would change the meaning of the Gospel like moderns do? What if Jesus decided he is going to destroy heaven and not allow any human in? What if? And why not? People change the meaning of the word to something other then was originally intended...You expect Jesus, God to be true but you think you have the right to change the WORD to suit your philosophical bent???

I wonder about this a lot when I read, hear how people manipulate the WORD to suit their own philosophy, to accommodate their own perversions....

What if? You don't like this idea? Likely not, so why do people think they can do it without suffering any serious repercussions?

The reality is people expect Jesus to be a true and faithful witness but do not think it is required of them to be likewise.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/6 9:54Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Philadelphia

Quote:
by ginnyrose
Seems to me a careful meditation on this fact of Jesus knowing our works, knowing where we live, knowing our tribulation should teach one in short order the role of works in the life of a Believer.

Works and first love - how they are so intertwined they cannot be separated. Our works are evidenced by what resides in the heart.


This is true Sandra. James said, "Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith "BY" my works."!!!!

Some place emphasis on works as to bring back the Law and others, like you said dismiss it entirely when they should not. There is a fine line and thank you for pointing it out!


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Lisa

 2017/4/6 13:29Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Laodicea - Rev. 3:

Rev. 3:15:

15‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.

16‘So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

17‘Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked," NASB

Laodicea. How many sermons have been preached detailing the dangers of affluence and they all get their inspiration from the message to this church. After listening to a sermon many will think and say, "I do not think wealth will make me lukewarm..." Really?

Wealth enables its possessors to get what they want, how they want it and when they want it and how much. The need to ask God for daily sustenance is not there. They do not feel the need for God like one who is suffering from lack.

Still, what is affluence? How can one separate affluence from greed, covetousness? Does this mean that all who are rich are covetous? was greed the driving force in their acquisition of wealth? Are the poor exempt from these sins of greed, envy, covetousness?

As I ponder the waste that is common among the wealthy, common among the 'poor' in the USA I see little difference. But who am I to judge? As a person who was taught to be thrifty I cringe at the waste I see among these people. My generation, growing up on the farm were taught to be resourceful, to make do with what we had, be creative and DO NOT waste!

Still..this does not answer the question: what is affluence?

And then at times we are reluctant to trust God to provide for whatever we need because we are not sure we will like it - we just do not trust God.

As I ponder this question all I have to do is to look within and judge my attitude how I feel when I have plenty and when I have lack.

When I have plenty I feel no need to ask God for anything in this department. I got it. I have two freezers with food - not full, but there is food there. Same with my cupboard. I have money to buy food what I need.

If I am short on something, lack it I need God to sustain me.

Affluence is characterized by feeling a lack for God and whatever he can do for you - we have an ambivalent attitude towards God. God is someone we can manipulate by saying the 'right' thing, give the correct money. Lukewarm = lack of awe for God.

This hits us all, I suspect. And scripture tells us He will spit you out if you do not repent.

I am reminded again how I need to counsel with God as I go about my day, the decisions I make on what I should do, where I should go, what I should buy, how can I bless someone. I have learned when I do this the blessings that come my way far exceeds my expectations, they give me joy, enhances my worship, admiration for who God is. You would think as old as I am I have learned this lesson well. Not so - am still in the kindergarten class...

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/10 11:52Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re: Laodicea - Rev. 3:19, 20

Rev. 3:19,20:

‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

20‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me

Chastens. Jesus says the people he loves he chastens. I have never heard anybody give a testimony praising God for the chastening he/she is in at the moment. It ain't no fun. On the other hand once a person gets through it you can clearly see how it has worked to cleanse you from whatever it is that clogged up your life. But you have to go through it.

As one goes through the book of Revelation we will see the multiple times God inflicts chastening upon the world. The incidences of earthquakes and other calamities destroy people's security. God does this to force people to rethink their stability. Are the things I look to for security really stable? Can it be trusted to provide security, for me in challenging times?

We do not like our world to be shaken, destroyed, but it is essential for us to learn to know and then trust what always is, will be. We must learn first hand the mighty powerful things we see are at best temporal, having no eternal qualities at all. Only God is there after all has been destroyed.

And you know what? Once this reality settles into our conscience minds we can sit, sup with him and have wonderful fellowship with him. Can't get any better then this, can it? Jesus wants our full trust - He works to instill within us full trust in Him alone. Only then will we be fit for heaven. He does not want any more Lucifers in his heaven..

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/11 21:52Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Revelation 4:1

Rev.4:1: After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.”

I love this chapter; I love to visualize what John saw - it cranks up my imagination to the hilt! He does a fine job describing what he sees. I have read this chapter many times and it thrills me each time - it is as though I am standing beside John and seeing what he sees. I do have a problem visualizing the creature with eyes all around their heads, but suffice it to say this does not distract from the rest of the text.

Anyhow...

Beginning chapter 4 the scene shifts. This can be understood when one notices a key word in verse one: "AFTER". The angel says: "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things." The events described in the upcoming chapters are future as far as time, place from where John was. While many have worked to place the events described later in this book to events current or past, people get in a wad over various interpretations of incidents noted. Seems to me one is missing the underlying message the LORD Jesus wishes to convey.

I suggest the reader read this chapter and allow it to feed your mind, spirit with the majesty, the glory John saw. And you can see it, too! Glorious experience!

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/13 15:20Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

  Revelation 4

Revelation 4

Herein John describes what he saw in heaven. He details the grandeur, the majesty, the beauty there. I try to visualize it as he describes it. The sea of glass - "and before the throne there was something like a sea of glass, like crystal; and in the center and around the throne" - challenges me. I love crystal, the clarity, the ways light bounces off of it, so pure, so clear and there was around the throne a "sea of glass, like crystal"? Wow!

But this is not what impressed the other beings in heaven nor did it John, either. What did impress the others was Jesus: “Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.”

As I ponder their worship of Him, compare it with mine, it is so meager in comparison. Jesus' creation, his sustaining of it evoked worship by the angels and all the other creatures.

It seems to me when we work to explain away the origin of the physical world around us to natural means we are robbing Jesus of worship he deserves and is entitled to. Here we see the testimony of the heavenly beings crediting the creation of the physical world to Him - who is man to say otherwise?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/15 16:43Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Revelation 4:7-11 NASB

Rev. 4:7-11:
7 The first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle.

8 And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say,

“HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME.”

9 And when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever,

10 the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

11“Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.”

My mind cannot get away from these examples of Jesus' creation as depicted here.

I have always felt these creatures were symbolic of the animal kingdom: the lion - King of the wild animals; the eagle of the birds of the air; the calf represents the domestic animals which serve mankind by providing food and clothing; and the crown of all life forms, man. These creatures all praise their creator.

As I look at the animal kingdom, including all living creatures, I cannot help but contrast it with man's 'creations'. If any of our works malfunction it is dead, it can't fix itself nor will other machines or whatever come about to repair, or pick up the slack. It is totally dependent upon man for its function and repair. The animal kingdom, on the other hand, when things go wrong, other life forms will work to repair, sustain it when things go awry. It is as though it is self-sustaining - God made it such with out any active intervention. Not so with man's creation.

Yes, all nature is a reflection of its creator and it worships God. I do not understand all this but do deeply appreciate the ability to observe and see the hand of God. God's intelligence is second to none, we cannot figure him out always, but we can trust Him to do whatever he considers best because he knows more then we do.

Yes!

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/17 20:29Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Revelation 5 and 6

What is this book?

Revelation 5:1-3:I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals.

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?”

3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.

Revelation 6:1:Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, “Come.

This book. What is this book that everyone felt too intimidated to open it? I have searched Revelation and to me there is no clear word on its identification but only assumptions and that not without serious questions.

Is this book wherein are recorded the names of the faithful who will inherit heaven? If so, how is it that when the seals are being opened calamities ensue - which are detailed until about chapter 20. How is it that names could be deleted (Rev.3:5) before the seals were opened? I would understand that if a book is sealed no additions or deletions can be made after it was sealed. Or, maybe this is not the book of Life. On the other hand Scripture also teaches us in 17:8: "And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come." Note it says the names were recorded from the foundation of the world. More questions follow - is everyone's name in there but the unfaithful one's are deleted? Or, maybe this is an entirely different book.

In Revelation 20:12:And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Here we read in chapter 20 how the books were opened and the dead were judged and rewards given. So, what is this book the Lamb was opening in chapter 5 and 6?

What say?

The inspiration I get from this dilemma is that while there are things I do not understand, it will not cause me to shun the book because of my lack of understanding but does in fact intrigue me such that it draws me more intently to it. Gives my brain a lot to mull over, meditate about and eventually I do get to connect the dots but at the moment they are not connecting on this question. Maybe they did in your mind?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/19 11:54Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5608
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 Re: Revelation 5 and 6

I always thought the scroll was simply the prophecies that were released as the seals were broken. As each seal was broken the scroll could be opened a tad more revealing each prophecy in turn.

Of course I may be all wet!


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Todd

 2017/4/19 20:32Profile





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