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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Washington Supreme Court Punishes Barronelle Stutzman. What Now?

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drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 691
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I don't understand it when people say they are christian and don't undergo persecution, even in free countries. I have been persecuted for my faith. Persecution does not necessarily mean being beheaded or put in jail. I praise God for the persecuted church in restricted countries; I support them and pray for them, and I try to help in any way possible. But they are not the only ones being persecuted. What about the scripture that says "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." 2 Timothy 3:12. I don't see an exemption for Western christians in that verse. Even Brother Yun said the cross we bear in the West may be different from the one that Chinese christians bear, but we must still carry it. Try being isolated and misunderstood, mocked and ridiculed for your faith. This is real persecution. I for one praise God for the freedom of religion here in Canada and the U.S., and I want it to go on as long as possible so we can tell as many people about Jesus as we can.


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Nigel Holland

 2017/2/23 9:13Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7486
Mississippi

 Re:

Ok, Tim, I get your point. BUT does the law not allow you to refuse to answer their question when being on the witness stand because it may incriminate you? My reasons to refuse should be none of their business! But they say it does if it deals with homosexuality? and what if I just plain do not like them? Opps...?! people suppose to like everybody...But I don't. SIGH

My first question still begs an answer.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/2/23 13:21Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Your fifth amendment rights against forced self incrimination do not apply in a civil case which is what this one is. It is not a criminal case. You can and will be forced to answer questions or suffer total loss of the case.

In fact your silence COULD be contempt of court if ordered to answer questions and you don't in a civil case. And that CAN land you in jail.


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Tim

 2017/2/23 14:54Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Sandra, you said -- and hey I agree by the way -- "My reasons to refuse should be none of their business."

Alas, it is not that way. There are 1000 reasons and even more combined reasons, but suffice it to say that the government is large and in charge and everything is their business and, according to them, you should like it that way. Regardless, what we think "should be" is not. That is the reality.


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Tim

 2017/2/23 16:19Profile









 Re:

I'm posting this article in this thread for those who did not catch the article under the other thread. The author reviews five stages of persecution. It seems that we are at stage 4. The implication being that stage 5 is not too far behind. Very thought-provoking article in view of the recent Fed ourt ruling. Even though the article is three years old. Look how far we have progressed. Or should I say regressed.


The Five Stages of Persecution
July 31, 2014
by: Fr. Dwight Longenecker

Seeing the rise of persecution against Christians in Iraq, the far East and Africa, Mgr Pope has a great archived article here on the five stages that precede outright persecution. Can it happen in the USA – land of religious freedom? Mgr Pope observes the five stages.

I. Stereotyping the targeted group – To stereotype means to repeat without variation, to take a quality or observation of a limited number, and generalize it of the whole group. It involves a simplified and standardized conception or view of a group based on observation of a limited sample.

Basically as the stereotype goes, Catholics and Bible believing Christians are a sad, angry, boring, backward and repressed lot. To many who accept the stereotyping we are a laughable, even tragic group, caught in a superstitious past, incapable of throwing off the shackles of faith.

II. Vilifying the targeted Group for alleged crimes or misconduct, – As the stereotyping grows in intensity, Catholics and Christians, who did not toe the line in the cultural revolution were described as, close-minded, harmful to human dignity and freedom, intolerant, hateful, bigoted, unfair, homophobic, reactionary and just plain mean and basically bad people.

The History of the Church is also described myopically as little more than bad and repressive behavior as we conducted crusades, inquisitions, and hated Galileo and all of science. Never mind that there might be a little more to the story, or that the Church founded universities, and hospitals, was the patron of the arts, and preached a Gospel that brought order and civilization to divided and barbarous time in the aftermath of the Roman Empire. Stereotyping will hear little of that, or, if it does, it will give the credit to anything or anyone but the Church and the faith.

III. Marginalizing the targeted group’s role in society – Having established the (untrue) premise that the Church and the faith is very bad, and even harmful to human dignity and freedom, the next stage seeks to relegate the role of the Church to the margins.

To many in secularized culture, religion must go. They will perhaps let us have our hymns etc. in the four walls of our churches, but the faith must be banished from the public square.
In this stage it becomes increasingly unacceptable and intolerable that anyone should mention God, pray publicly or in any way bring their Christian faith to bear on matters of public policy. Nativity sets must go, out with Christmas trees, even the colors green and red at “holiday time” are banished from many public schools.

IV. Criminalizing the targeted group or its works – Can someone say HHS mandate?
But prior to this egregious attempt to violate our religious liberty there have been many othertimes we have had to go to court to fight for our rights to openly practice our faith. Increasing litigation is being directed against the Church and other Christians for daring to live out our faith.

Some jurisdictions have sought to compel Catholic hospitals and pro-life clinics to provide information or referrals for abortion, to provide “emergency contraception” (i.e. the abortifacient known as the morning after pill), Several branches of Catholic Charities have been de-certified from doing adoption work because they will not adopt children to gay couples. The State of Connecticut sought regulate the structure, organization and running of Catholic parishes in 2009. And recently a number of Christian valedictorians in various states have suffered legal injunctions when it was discovered that they would dare to mention God, and Jesus in their talk. (More HERE)

V. Persecuting the targeted group outright – If current trends continue, Christians, especially religious leaders, may not be far from enduring heavy fines and jail. The trajectory points to suffering, lawsuits, fines, desertification, and ultimately jail.
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I might also add it Stage 5 ultimately martyrdom.

Bro Blaine

 2017/2/23 16:33
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7486
Mississippi

 Re:

Tim, thanks for your patient answers to my questions.

As I understand the issue it is all about satanic power at its core fighting God. But I still hoped there would be a sense of decency left among the powers that be.

I have served as a juror many times and each time I was pleased to see how the judge, prosecutor and attorneys worked to be fair. But then we are small town USA, backward as the elite would say...Yet if it would not be for us rural folks who work to grow crops they would have little to eat - and doing so one learns a lot about common sense.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/2/23 17:58Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Yes, ma'am. That is true.


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Tim

 2017/2/23 18:30Profile





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