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 Is this what we are turning into???

With the current policies of President Trump. I'm wondering if this is not what we in America are turning into as indicated in the article below.

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Suspected gunman charged with murder in Canada mosque attack

By Doug G. Ware and Andrew V. Pestano
Updated Jan. 30, 2017 at 6:15 PM


Jan. 30 (UPI) -- Canadian authorities on Monday charged a suspect in the attack that killed six people at an Islamic cultural center in Quebec.

The suspect, Alexandre Bissonnette, who's believed by officials to have anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim views, was arraigned Monday for the deadly attack Sunday evening, which also injured 17.

Bissonnette, 27, faces six charges of first-degree murder and five counts of attempted murder.

Police initially said two suspects were arrested after the shooting but later clarified that one was a witness, who was questioned and later released.

During a speech to House of Commons, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told his Muslim constituents, "We are with you."

"Canadians will not be broken by this violence," he said . "We will not close our minds, we will open our hearts."

More than 50 people were inside the mosque when shots were first fired. Those killed vary in age from 35 to 70.

The deadly attack was Canada's first on a mosque.

"Last night's horrible crime against the Muslim community was an act of terror committed against Canada, and against all Canadians," Trudeau added. "Such senseless violence has no place in Canada."

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What is surprising in all of this is that the incident took place in Canada. Canada has a more liberal policy toward immigrants did we in America do. Of course the conservative for argue this is why the violence took place against the mosque. My question is why. Canada has always been friendly toward Muslims. But then God only knows the depravity of the one who did this terrible deed.

But with the policies of the president which will certainly promote a hatred of Muslims. Even a hatred of Muslims among Christians. There will be those in America who no doubt will feel that this is a justification to commit atrocities toward Muslims and seek to do them harm.

Several months ago I was sitting in a Sunday school class in an evangelical church here in central Arkansas. You must realize that this is a state which loves its guns. One of the Sunday school members said that if Muslims came to mess with his family he would take his 30/30 and drop them. And let God sort the rest. Needless to say they were anen's that sounded in this Sunday school class. And this was supposedly an evangelical church. My heart grieved to hear such a comment.

Under the guise of National Security we are banning Muslims from six or seven nations who supposedly would represent a threat to National Security. Ultimately this could be extended to a ban to all Muslims. But in the process of this man are we not creating a hatred of Muslims in our nation. Are we not creating an atmosphere in which violence against mosque and those of the Islamic faith will be completely justified. In other words are we not encouraging what tragically took place in Canada.

Earlier there was talk about a Muslim registry. I'm sure this idea will be resurrected again under the Trump Administration. Perhaps you could even get to the point where all Muslims will have to identify themselves by wearing a crescent moon armband on their arms. It may get to a point where we will probably have all Muslims detained and something akin to concentration camps.

Some of you say brother you are certainly overreacting. This will never happen here in America. Go back and Google Franklin Delano Roosevelt's executive order that imprisoned thousands of American Japanese and World War II. That is thousands of Japanese-Americans here in her own nation. Because of the hysteria of Pearl Harbor. White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Americans demanded that Japanese-Americans be imprisoned or what their country of origin had done to America. The sad fact in all of this is that many of these imprisoned were second and third-generation Americans that had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor. These were naturalized American citizens that had sworn allegiance to this nation. But yet the American government considered them enemies and had them imprisoned.

You think I exaggerate. This is one of our finer moments in American history and can be confirmed through a Google search.

If we are not careful America will fall into the patrern of Germany and do to the Muslims what Germany did to the Jews. God forbid that I should read in the news but the policies of Trump encouraged attacks on Islamic mosque here in America. But this is sure to happen.

The sad thing is the church in America is getting on board with this. I mean the evangelical church. American evangelicals are more concerned with protecting the status quo and keeping out the Muslims. They have forgotten that Jesus died for the Muslims and that His desire is to see them reached for Jesus Christ. But then if this is what the American church wants then God will certainly leave them to their desires. Only that we will miss the revival that God is doing among the Muslims.

It is said that more Muslims have come to Christ in the last 15 years than all of fifteen centuries of Islam. It is being reported that Jesus is appearing to Muslims in dreams and visions. And that thousands daily are turning to follow Him. Given where these conversions are taking place. This is not cheap grace. These are Muslims that are laying down their lives to follow Jesus. They do it realizing they're going to suffer and no doubt being martyred for Him. Missionaries called these Muslims, Muslim background believers. I prefer the term these converted use. They call themselves Jesusfollowers.

Some churches that have been dead for decades in Germany and other parts of Europe are experiencing a revival because of Muslim refugees who have come to Christ. Is it possible that the policies of President Trump will deny the American Church a long-needed revival. It might be possible that our neighbor to the north in the land of the Canadian maple leaf nay see revival before we in America do. If we ever do. But then only time will tell.

I only pray that the American church will wake up and realize that we are citizens of another kingdom. And that we realize Jesus died for the Muslims. And that the command to love our enemies and reach them for Christ is binding upon us. And that the command of Jesus overrides even the executive order of Donald Trump.

Simply my thoughts.

Bro Blaine

 2017/2/1 7:46
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5584
NC, USA

 Re: Is this what we are turning into???

Unfortunately the radical terrorists who openly wish to do us harm are Muslim.

Don't you think it would be exceedingly foolish to ignore that fact (because that is what it is- a fact) for the sake of political correctness?

Don't drink the kool-aid the media is pouring. Read the executive order for yourself. An extremely small percentage of persons were affected by the travel ban.

DT promised to tighten security for persons entering our country from areas known to produce radical islamists. Lo and behold, he is keeping his promise.

That being said, of course we should love muslims and try to reach them with the gospel. But let's be wise as serpents as well.


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Todd

 2017/2/1 8:12Profile









 Re:

///DT promised to tighten security for persons entering our country from areas known to produce radical islamists. Lo and behold, he is keeping his promise.///

Realky. Then why were Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Afghanistan not included in that ban? Most of the terrorists involved in 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia. The woman who committed the massacre in San Bernardino, California was from Pakistan and she radicalized her husband who was a nominal Muslim before he married her.

Bro Blaine


 2017/2/1 8:30
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1436
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Bear

Dear brother please don't allow your emotions to get the best of you. The opposition you expressed is shared by many people and as you know in most cases they are responding emotionally to their detriment as it weakens their cause. But we dear brother, as you have stated before, serve King Jesus:) and He is Lord of all!!!
So please don't allow political positions to cause divisions in the body. Disagreements are, I suppose, inevitable but argumentative tones are not-
And the questions you pose are easily answered by the facts if you care to search them out. Of course you can still disagree, but we can disagree without being disrespectful:) and to do so serves the cause for which our beloved savior shed His precious blood, but to engage in fruitless debates do not and they only serve to spot our testimony.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.


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Fletcher

 2017/2/1 8:59Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Bear, your points are based in logic even if our conclusions might land in separate places. And, I know your heart is to love those for whom Jesus died. It is not a remote, theoretical love, either, but one based in fact and in truth --- you know for a fact that Muslims are coming to Christ.

There is more to the overall picture, though.

I have no problem with the Trump refugee ban or whatever kind of ban anybody wants to call it, pro-Trump or anti-Trump or who-is-Trump?. Why? Because this country is getting ready to tear itself apart, and I think it HAS to happen as part of the historical prophetic path we are on that culminates in the return of Jesus.

Donald Trump is not a brother in Christ whom we can entrust with our lives as believers. Nor more so than Barack Obama, Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Il, Iranian ayotollahs, or anyone else does Trump represent our safety or favor. What Trump IS, though, is the one whom God has sovereignly positioned as POTUS. That positioning is tactical as God moves forward rapidly in prophetic strategy, bringing the world to that moment when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdom of Christ.

The United States represents a rather special case in the world. Our government is the gold standard of world governments. We are seen as the most stable, the strongest --- even if not the best or the smartest or most agreeable. Even to the "enemies" of America, it represents the center of gravity in world affairs.

The power of America is its ability to be "right", politically. We have the "right" form of government because it has "worked" for 240 years having survived a historic schism of bloodshed in the Civil War, having completely reoriented its own existence from then until the 1930s and the New Deal and Commerce Clause jurisprudence, and having maintained its structures of power through the most sweeping of changes within the nation and over eras of different kinds of dominant moral thought.

America is, to the world, an object of faith. People venerate Americanism even if they loathe it and want to destroy it. Their hatred of it is rooted in a realization of its durability and the rather unique power of its model. Americanism is, to Americans and non-Americans, a way of life. A system of belief. It is a meta-narrative (if I can get all fancy sounding) that contains within it many opposing views but still manages to survive its own inner turmoils and outside challenges.

And, that, my brother, is an obstacle that has to be diminished. deTocqueville is (wrongly) credited with saying, "America is great because America is good." America is "great" in the world because Americanism works, and Americanism has become its own good. The enemies of America know it. Americans themselves may not, but we tend to identify that "good" as God's "good". It isn't. It is maybe the single most powerful representation of anti-Christ thinking in the world. Americanism is an idol. And, our Lord Jesus will not suffer our idols indefinitely. In fact, He is preparing to take this one down with all the others and pack them into the last great carbon footprint (2 Peter 3:10).

Trump, the protests, the political uproar, all of it, I welcome. The media has lost its mind. Good. The people in the coasts have lost their minds and tempers. Good. The Trump supporters and those who are of a more conservative bent are losing their minds and tempers. Good. Whatever the present order does to itself it does out of its own form of self-serving madness, as God is giving the world over to its depravity. And, Americanism is as much a depravity as any other.

While the reality is that Muslims may not reach American soil and thus hear the gospel here, it is true that God does not remotely need us for it. He is already for some long time now making Himself known among Muslims in their own native lands in the world. I am not really now concerned with the justice or injustice of American government because American government is the temple of the idol of American thought and Americanism. It is a competitor to the gospel, not a partner in it.

It is difficult and heart-wrenching to stand and see people you love and whom Jesus loves still being castigated and despised, cast aside as nothing but pawns in a political chess match. But, God will cause those who will repent to repent. Our government -- "wise" or "foolish" will not stop Him. And, the undoing of all that we know has to occur.

I am afraid and eager at the same time for Him to do what He does.


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Tim

 2017/2/1 9:58Profile









 Re:

Excellent thoughts brother, I say Amen...........

"Trump, the protests, the political uproar, all of it, I welcome. The media has lost its mind. Good. The people in the coasts have lost their minds and tempers. Good. The Trump supporters and those who are of a more conservative bent are losing their minds and tempers. Good. Whatever the present order does to itself it does out of its own form of self-serving madness, as God is giving the world over to its depravity. And, Americanism is as much a depravity as any other.

While the reality is that Muslims may not reach American soil and thus hear the gospel here, it is true that God does not remotely need us for it. He is already for some long time now making Himself known among Muslims in their own native lands in the world. I am not really now concerned with the justice or injustice of American government because American government is the temple of the idol of American thought and Americanism. It is a competitor to the gospel, not a partner in it.

It is difficult and heart-wrenching to stand and see people you love and whom Jesus loves still being castigated and despised, cast aside as nothing but pawns in a political chess match. But, God will cause those who will repent to repent. Our government -- "wise" or "foolish" will not stop Him. And, the undoing of all that we know has to occur.

I am afraid and eager at the same time for Him to do what He does."

Amen brother............bro Frank

 2017/2/1 20:23
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Some Facts

I appreciate reading what everyone has said so far and I just wanted to add to this topic.

We currently are at 2.11% Muslim pop up from 1.1% in 2000 with and currently they comprise of 10% of all group specific immigrants coming into the US. It is an calculated security risk with in any nation once the % over all population reaches slightly over 4%, that's the threshold where they act out attacks and or turn more radical. As a nation with the their propagating of their own religion we are reaching that threshold. Reference materials that are good to explore this are CBS news, WND World Net Daily, and several UN based study groups that are online. At present all vetting is done primarily by the UN overseas in refugee camps, which is also responsible for placing immigrants in Germany, France, England(UK), Australia...etc... . America has pretty much handed over her sovereignty on The world scene. The most recent temporary hold is really just a practical step to take control back over our national security. Again..our leadership is really just responsible for this nation and is not representative of The Christian community. As Christians we have our citizenship in heaven. This current administration is doing what needs to be done to keep its citizens here domestically safe. As to how professing Christians react to all of these current events? I used to do full time work in primarily black and poor areas of our community, that mixed with the work of an evangelist not only here in the North but also in the South or Southern States and what I have seen first hand is racism in the church among many professing Christians, so to hear about all the division and turmoil is not at all surprising. Like Brother Frank I too see American Nationalism in competition with Christianity. This has become a great winnowing fork dividing wheat and chaff. It is certainly a good time to set our house in order and to encourage each other daily to do the same.


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D.Miller

 2017/2/1 21:05Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2190


 Re:

It's a TEMPORARY BAN on Muslims from seven particular nations that is supposed to last 90 days and maybe a little more so that the vetting process can be streamlined and become more effective. The Trump administration already has plans to take an estimated 60,000 refugees into this country this year.

Meanwhile, look for Jewish targets in the urban centers of the world to become more targeted.


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David Winter

 2017/2/1 21:44Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re: Is this what we are turning into???

It is a nations security interest to allow or disallow people from another nation. As a Christian we should all respect it. I believe the leaders and army generals will know better about the situation in these 7 Islamic nations than what we know. So questioning them is not good at all. A christian should obey the decision taken by Authority that God has placed above him.

Why not christians look into the positive side? The change will also give preference to Christian refugees over Muslims. This is a great move and profits the persecuted Christians in Muslim majority nations. Suppose USA is not giving preference to these Christian Refugees, then they may end up in Egypt or other Islamic nations that will be an extension of persecution. Good that USA has taken a solid stand.


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Sreeram

 2017/2/1 22:40Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

I also believe this move by Trump Adminstration can bring serious Christian persecution in USA. Already many Americans who hate this refugee ban are speaking against Christians. Soon it will develop into a hatred for Christians.


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Sreeram

 2017/2/1 22:43Profile





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