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deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 2359
Hemel Hempstead

 When is the start of the tribulation

Daniel 9:27
King James Bible
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

With the recent process in France what will be the actual working out of this verse as there has been the Oslo Accords and other things.

Will the peace accord be with the building of the temple to actually start the Tribulation.

with actually building the temple the temple institute have the actual plans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2IkxmwkayM&list=PLPtr_UmiMgfy5WzkyI3Nl1r88SPrJE2RU

From a biblical source there is only one verse please inform me if you can think of any others? I would be glad.

There is not going to be an official neon sign starting say we are now going through the tribulation, I know this is disputed among the Pre Mil position.

I would love clarity.


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2017/1/21 13:42Profile









 Re: When is the start of the tribulation

Hi bro,

I think it is assumed that it will be a comprehensive peace deal, a deal in which brings total peace to the middle east, we certainly, at this point, are a long way from that. Once the persecution of the saints start, we will certainly know it as we will be outlawed and rounded up and eventually killed..............bro Frank

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.(Rev 13:7-8)

 2017/1/21 15:37
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re: When is the start of the tribulation

Quote: "I would love clarity. "

Good luck!

If the 7 year trib is a literal 7 year period yet future, and it is as bad as the language used in Rev to describe it, don't you think you'll know? The traditional pretrib view is that the first thing that happens is the rise of antichrist. Wouldn't that be obvious?


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Todd

 2017/1/21 15:37Profile
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
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Online!
 Re:

Brother,

I believe the best thing to do is to prepare. We will not be unaware of the revelating of the man, the antichrist. But to prepare spiritually and even physically as to the leading of the Holy Spirit is wise.

The virgins had oil and this I believe applies to us spiritually as well as even physically towards the end of the age and great tribulation. The sobering fact is that we cannot share at a certain point as the parable states: "“‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead..." What a sobering statement "No."

May we each find ourselves preparing now for the coming of the Bridgegroom Jesus Christ.


Matthew 25:1-13New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Ten Virgins
25 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’

12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/1/21 15:50Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 1025
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

If you're born again, you are one of the wise virgins. You won't be left behind.


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2017/1/21 16:01Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 Re: Jesus provided great clarity

/Daniel 9:27
King James Bible
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

With the recent process in France what will be the actual working out of this verse as there has been the Oslo Accords and other things.

Will the peace accord be with the building of the temple to actually start the Tribulation.

with actually building the temple the temple institute have the actual plans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2IkxmwkayM&list=PLPtr_UmiMgfy5WzkyI3Nl1r88SPrJE2RU

From a biblical source there is only one verse please inform me if you can think of any others? I would be glad.

There is not going to be an official neon sign starting say we are now going through the tribulation, I know this is disputed among the Pre Mil position.

I would love clarity./

I may not be speaking for everyone, obviously I am not, but I commend you for your interest in this matter. I come from the viewpoint of not believing the eschatological scriptures recorded in the Bible in such heavy volume were placed there only to be non understandable and are to remain a riddle and enigma never really understood even up until the return of Christ. If the start of the final tribulation signals the beginning of the final days and time before Christ's return then it is logical that it is a matter of great importance for the church to be knowledgeble and understand what is taking place. The words of Jesus regarding the START of this tribulation are very clear and as you mentioned can serve as a official neon prophetic sign that signals the start of this time of trouble and tribulation"such as never occurred." You ask a very good and important question in my opinion. My answer is from a pre-mill and literalist approach to interpretation.

Prophetic thought before Jesus:

- When you are in distress and all these things have come upon you, in the latter days you will return to the Lord your God and listen to His voice. (Deut 4:30)

Before they entered the land for the first time, Moses voiced a astounding prophecy that the children of Israel would suffer distress and tribulation even into the latter days preceding the end of this age.

- Isaiah spoke of a time of trouble that would precede the resurrection of the dead and final deliverance for Israel from their enemies - Isaiah 26:15-21.

- Jeremiah saw a day of trouble unlike any other day ever experienced - Jeremiah 30:7.

- Daniel spoke of a time of trouble such as never occurred that will precede the resurrection of the dead. The time of this trouble has to near the end of the age because the resurrection occurs at the end of this age.

1 “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress SUCH AS NEVER OCCURRED since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake,(be resurrected) these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:1-2)

Then the Olivet Discourse:

15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.

18 Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

20 But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

21 for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will (Matt 24:15-21).

The words of Jesus in Matthew 24:21 - "such as never has occurred" match almost word for the word the description Daniel gave of a final time of trouble. Daniel described this time as a time of distress "such as never occurred." From my reasoning, it's a safe assumption that Daniel and Jesus are speaking of the same thing. Jesus has not spoken His own words but has referred to the prophecies of Daniel. In the words of Jesus referringg to Daniel, what is it that sets off this final time of distress and tribultation?

15 “Therefore WHEN YOU SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

Jesus again refers us back to the prophecies of Daniel as to the timing of the BEGINNING of the tribulation. It is one of the most clear, unambigious and noteworthy prophetic signs that has ever been given in the Bible. The AOD is spoken of clearly in Daniel, not once but four places (Daniel 8:12; 9:27; 11:31; 12:11), so who or what else could Jesus have been referring to?

The Antichrist will confirm a covenant according to Daniel 9:27 but it doesn't necessarily say he will be the author of the covenant. That doesn't preclude the possibility that He won't be though. But he may confirm a covenant by going along with and giving his affirmation to what has been decided on by the nations by way of a covenant. Someone, maybe the AC, will likely have convinced the competing entities, Israel and the Muslim nations, that a Jewish temple and the Muslim Dome of the Rock can exist peacefully side by side. I would place this in the realm of speculation though (not to be associated with scripture) but only as a possible scenario. Many think if you speculate a little about possible scenarios that you have gone off into Zanyville but this is not so. Yet the AC will be lying in his heart and only biding time until the satanic rage he has against the Jewish people and their covenant will explode into the open (Daniel 11:28-31) This will be when he goes to a rebuilt temple and descecrates it and performs the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION when He pronounces himself God ( Daniel 11:36; II Thess 2:3-4). This will signal the beginning of the great and final tribulation SUCH AS HAS NEVER COURRED nor never shall occur again. Rev 7:14 speaks of this time also.
The words of Jesus are a fool proof refuge against being deceived in this day.

Jesus was asked, "When will the end of the age be and what will be the sign of your coming again?" By way of reply, the very first words out of the mouth of Jesus were, "Take heed that no one DECEIVES YOU." And to not be deceived in this time of great deception ("Lo, He is there," or, "Lo, He is there etc.", Jesus refers back to the prophecy of Daniel and the AOD as a absolute reliable sign and indicator of what is about to happen. "Let the reader understand" that the prophecy of Daniel is where to go to get your bearings as to the timing of the start of the final tribulation.

15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

21 for THEN (after the AOD) there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

Again, the words of Jesus ("when you see the AOD spoken of through Daniel the prophet"), may be the most important prophetic sign that He gave to help people from being deceived at the end. Therefore, from the pin point specific instructions of Jesus Himself, we must go to the words of Daniel the prophet to understand the time of the beginning of the tribulation. I assume the words of Jesus are fool proof in this regard.

Things to guard against:

1) Other believers saying you are overly speculating and too interested in things that don't really matter.

2) The scriptures don't refer to Jews rebuilding a temple because the church is the now temple of God inhabited by the Spirit. The answer is that the Jews rebuilding a physical temple and the Church now being the temple of God are two separate issues altogether not really related to one another.

3) There has always been tribulation so there can really be no final tribulation at the end of the age such as has never occurred.














_________________
David Winter

 2017/1/21 16:12Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

According the the Apostle Paul, it won't start until the anti Christ is revealed. As he is writing to believers saying in effect, 'don't worry you have not missed it, you will know if you see this!', then true believers will
know who he is when he is 'revealed'.


_________________
Dave

 2017/1/21 17:07Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

One quick question- Jesus said we couldn't time his coming(paraphrasing).

However, if premillennialism is correct and we can mark the start of the 7 year period, wouldn't we be able to time his return?

Matthew 24:44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.


_________________
Todd

 2017/1/21 17:27Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 2359
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Brother,

I believe the best thing to do is to prepare. We will not be unaware of the revelating of the man, the antichrist. But to prepare spiritually and even physically as to the leading of the Holy Spirit is wise.

The virgins had oil and this I believe applies to us spiritually as well as even physically towards the end of the age and great tribulation. The sobering fact is that we cannot share at a certain point as the parable states: "“‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead..." What a sobering statement "No."

May we each find ourselves preparing now for the coming of the Bridgegroom Jesus Christ.


Matthew 25:1-13New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Ten Virgins
25 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’

12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour

Love your answer Greg I need as much of the holy spirit as I can get.

It is not that as reading the Dead Sea Scrolls, at the time when Jesus appeared during his first coming.

Sometimes looking in the wrong direction,

What is interesting is that someday we will watch the news and that a seven year peace treaty will be signed with israel, we will we miss it,

I so love Greg as hopefully the holy spirit will reveal it to us, sometimes I feel so dead and dry I need the holy spirit so much, but I also want to test every spirit aswell.

2) The scriptures don't refer to Jews rebuilding a temple because the church is the now temple of God inhabited by the Spirit. The answer is that the Jews rebuilding a physical temple and the Church now being the temple of God are two separate issues altogether not really related to one another.

What is the abomination of desolation ?

It is interesting Mamonadies and all the current hasidic rabbis refer to the messiah making world peace and rebuilding the third temple to me which fits the idea more of the antichrist than the messiah it is a low expectation of the messiah than the messiah mentioned in the dead sea scrolls who fits Jesus perfectly.

3) There has always been tribulation so there can really be no final tribulation at the end of the age such as has never occurred.

Jesus refers to the Great Tribulation in Matt 24 and the time of Jacobs trouble is mentioned in scripture, The early church fathers refer to this aswell.

I need the holy spirit I am a mess and I need Jesus


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2017/1/21 17:43Profile









 Re:

What scriptures support the tribulation as being 7 years. Revelation 13:5 says,

...There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him...

Bro Blaine

 2017/1/21 17:55





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