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Quote:
On a more serious note, I can sympathize with the criticisms of Hillsong as I make some of the same criticisms about my own church, although not publically. I have emailed the pastor a couple of times.

Our church has its weak points but it also has very strong points. We have not been released to leave the church. Honestly I have been to most types of churches but none are perfect.

The one I attended that was most doctrinally correct per the author of the OP was dead as a door nail and dry as dust.



I agree and while many of the Hillsong churches may very well be part of "Babylon" it is dangerous for us to judge and categorize in a broad brushed way.

Yes brother Todd, every single church and movement has their strengths and weaknesses. We must love one another regardless because if we are without love for our brothers that is the greatest weakness of all. Terminally so:-(

 2016/12/2 14:46









 Re:

Perhaps the biggest problem with Hillsongs lies in its very name: the songs are given prominence; preaching comes second.

The apostle Paul didn't have a worship band in tow when he cut a path through Europe and Asia Minor, preaching the Gospel with signs following. Today so many contemporary churches (not just Hillsongs) have bought into the idea that we have to get people into "the zone" through worship music first, then their hearts and minds will be open to receive the Word. This is not Biblical at all!

That, and the commerciality of it all---so many contemporary worship songs (by Hillsongs and others) are modeled on secular music. Marketing trends, not time in the prayer closet, are what drive the creation of so many of these repetitive mantras which pass as "worship."

I've played guitar for 38 years, and could share a lot of experiences I've had (both good and bad) in different churches' music ministries.

Much of today's CCM (contemporary Christian music, so-called) I find to be mind-numbing and musically inferior---certainly not heavensent!

 2016/12/2 17:13
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Here my personal story connected with it. Quite a few years back our two daughters (both then in their twenties) had recently come back/comitted their lives to the Lord after some time living in the mire of the world and all that entailed. A friend of their's invited them to go up to a Hillsong service in London. My wife and I were concerned as we knew enough about Hillsong to know they were not sound. However we decided not to tell them not to go, but let them see for themselves as thet had come back to the Lord with a real deep commitment and repentance.
On their return they told us it was all just like a staged rock music show, just the sort of thing they had come out of and not real worship or teaching. Entertaiment. To them it was so easy to see the error of aping the world.

I agree it is not just Hillsongs, it seems that this type of thing is more and more common. Really it is a franchaise business, making the people at the top very rich. I bet the one thing they do all preach is tithing!


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Dave

 2016/12/2 17:45Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Alec- what kind of music would you suggest a church use? Organs? None at all? Just curious.


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Todd

 2016/12/2 19:01Profile









 Re:

Quote:
On their return they told us it was all just like a staged rock music show, just the sort of thing they had come out of and not real worship or teaching. Entertaiment. To them it was so easy to see the error of aping the world.

I agree it is not just Hillsongs, it seems that this type of thing is more and more common. Really it is a franchaise business, making the people at the top very rich. I bet the one thing they do all preach is tithing!



I cannot disagree with that but I would not say ALL Hillsong churches are like this because they are a part of a much larger denomination back in Australia. I knew a lot of really good brothers who, while they have upped their worship services accordingly, they still have not sold out if that makes any sense?

And for many of the kids involved with these churches they do not know any better, or anything else for that matter...this is all they have grown up with. And I am not talking about Hillsong now. I am talking about the show and the good sermon and the whole "Sunday Morning Experience". If the presence of God is not there then it doesn't matter if they have music or not or if they have watered down mushy sermons or expository sermons. Where is the Lord Jesus in all of these carry ons? Where is the Lord? Where are the people coming around the Lord and worshiping in Spirit and Truth and being broken before Him and one another?

That is the big tell tale sign for me...if the presence of the Lord is nowhere to be found we have to ask why?

 2016/12/2 19:05









 Re:

Todd (TMK) wrote: Alec- what kind of music would you suggest a church use? Organs? None at all? Just curious.

If you're banging on more than two coconuts at a time, then you've crossed the line. ;)


Seriously, I said I've played guitar for 38 years - I didn't say that I no longer do so. I have no problem with any number of instruments, or none at all (a capella voices). I was talking about worshiping the Lord in Spirit and in truth. Few people in today's church music compose at Bach and Handel's level. I have no problem with music of various cultures/nations in sincere worship either, so I'm all for that.

What I have a problem with is SHALLOWNESS in worship music, both musically and lyrically. There is a lot of musical laziness in contemporary Christian music. Much of it is patterned after groups like U2, a secular pop/rock band which first became famous in the early 1980s. I also have a problem with worship songs which address our Lord as if He were someone's boyfriend. It is neither reverent nor doctrinally sound.

 2016/12/2 19:26









 Re:

The article states

"Effectively, Hillsong’s leaders seek to enable and empower a latent human condition."

If true how are they different than Joel Olsteen's me gospel?

 2016/12/2 20:07
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Sorry I submitted twice
Staff

 2016/12/3 7:24Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi All,
Interesting discussion and I guess part of the original post was saying how poor the preaching was,in essense.
A Pastor friend of mine pointed out to me that really if Hillsong didnt play some good sounding music then no one would be at all interested in their preaching anyway.
If I saw a Hillsong Preacher on Tv i'd switch to Hawaii Five O immediately,I would have no interest in hearing their ramblings.However when I hear some of their music its different.
Christian Music has fundemental problems.(not the words the music)
1:The majority of it is off poor standard
Worldy music(the best off it) is light years ahead in terms of quality and we wont accept that,we are living in denial.
2:It has even created a style/genre of its own "worship" that the world plays in some of their songs but has no effect on the world
3:Worship music is mainly for the church anyway so in a way you could say thats ok but all the other forms of Modern Christian music are going down a dead end street.Why?well you cant play their stuff on a Sunday Morning on the one hand and on the other the world doesnt listen to it because most of it is off Poor Quality.So all its message is lost too because its not up to scratch.
In that sense and only through that lens do I have respect for some of the Hillsongs Music,it brought the standard up at times.
Sorry for being so blunt but its a subject that Ive been grapling with for a couple of years.
Remedy??
Ok this is what Ive come up
We need to have Christian Music that is off the Highest Standard.We have an advantage on the world in this regard,we have the great creator on our side and we need to become inspired by him and we need him to be involved in the creation process.
Thats all simple put God at the centre of our music creation,thats has to be the starting point,
Yours Staff

 2016/12/3 7:24Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 5185
Louisiana

 Re:

One of the great privileges that we have as children of God is to come into God’s presence with thanksgiving and praise. We should be doing this out of a heart of love and devotion to the Lord, not for what we can get out of it, but every time we do come into the Lord’s presence, we do benefit from it greatly, because from glory to glory we are being transformed in to His image.

To be a praise and worship leader at a church is a real ministry that is for the purpose of bringing the congregation into the presence of the Lord. It is not for us, but for Him, for He alone is worthy of praise. There is so much scripture concerning praise, worship, and music, in our individual lives and the corporate gatherings of the Body of Christ.

In most churches where there is a blend of the grey heads with the youth which is a good thing by the way, the older saints prefer the old traditional hymns and the young people like the more contemporary music. There is no one style of music that God prefers. The Lord is looking for those that will worship Him in spirit and in truth. The Lord is looking at our hearts.

If the praise and worship music is directed towards the Lord, for the glory of God, and it is bringing people into the presence of the Lord, then it is fulfilling it’s rightful purpose, and is pleasing to the Lord. If the music is directed towards the people and is designed to please man, to make us feel good, to give us thrills and chills, then it is no more than the music of the world that appeals to the soulish nature of man.

So what about Hillsong and other contemporary groups. Is this music of the Lord or is it’s basic purpose to stir up the emotions in men? I believe for the most part there is a great mixture here. For much of the music that Hillsong has put out does indeed inspire worship, and many young people especially are worshipping the Lord and entering into His presence. Now on the other hand, there are some songs that have very little spiritual value to them.

The good thing is that young people, instead of indulging in sex and drugs are in the House of the Lord, worshipping the Lord. The bad is that they are receiving from the mixture of that which is of the flesh. It should be the desire of the pastor and the leadership of the church to purge out that which is not pleasing to the Lord, and encourage that which is of real spiritual value. To shut it all down would be to drive the young people out of the church. The main objective of any church should be to see that people are saved and are disciples of Jesus.

It was no different today than it was with us in the late 60’s and 70’s. Most of us that came out of the Woodstock generation and were saved did not switch over night to listening to sweet Christian hymns. We just switched to rock music with Christian lyrics. This did not cause a problem to God, and we worshipped with many of the older saints that were happy that we were in church and not out on the streets getting in trouble anymore. Many of us back then loved the old hymns, because the words of the songs were real worship to the Lord and ministered life to us. Over the years before I was saved, I had accumulated quite a music collection from everything from
the Beatles to Led Zepplin. I remember the Lord dealing with me about destroying all of that old music that was so much a part of the old man that was suppose to now be dead, but had a bad habit of coming off the cross at times.

This is why I can have compassion towards young people that are caught up with contemporary Christian music. If they are born again, filled with the Spirit, and under the teaching of the Word, the Holy Spirit is more than able to
deal with them, and as their discernment grows, they will be able to filter out the mixture of what is truly bringing glory to the Lord, and what is pleasing to the soulish, fleshly nature of man.


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Mike

 2016/12/3 10:57Profile





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