Poster | Thread |
| Re: when it comes | | David/Dfella
That was very encouraging and a blessing to read as to the Lord's dealings with your brother.
Lord bless you |
| 2016/12/2 16:50 | | narrowpath Member

Joined: 2005/1/9 Posts: 1522 Germany NRW
| Re: | | What a powerful, though bitter-sweet testimony. Your brother will thank you forever having the guts to tell him the truth. Sure you will embrace him again one day. |
| 2016/12/2 17:16 | Profile |
| Re: David | | Wow brother what a wonderful, wonderful testimony about your brother! And praise God that He used that sermon...and while I thank God for that I still respectfully disagree that we should (like Westboro Baptist) preach that God is a God of hate.
Perhaps we are all arguing over semantics here though. Because to really understand each others position we need to understand what each party BELIEVES they are saying when they say that God hates some people.
I believe that to say God hates you means that God hates you and does not love you. That He desires to make your life miserable and to give you no hope for eternal life.
Perhaps others here believe that God hates you really is saying that God hates your sin, your rebellious position and will punish you because of this unless you repent and believe on Christ. If that is the case then I agree with this definition of "God hates".
But at the same time I do not believe that God absolutely decides before hand who is damned and then hates those that He has predestined to be damned.
I believe that God loves all mankind and stretches out His hands to a rebellious people (through the Cross) and bids all, whosover will to come to Him to receive forgiveness. If God hates as I understand the word hatred He would not forgive and would shut the door on sinners even if they had a repentant heart.
So maybe we are all on the same page after all? Or at least some of us:-) |
| 2016/12/2 19:15 | | proudpapa Member

Joined: 2012/5/13 Posts: 2936
| Psalms 107 | | 1 O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. 2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy; 3 And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, from the north, and from the south. 4 They wandered in the wilderness in a solitary way; they found no city to dwell in. 5 Hungry and thirsty, their soul fainted in them. 6 Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them out of their distresses. 7 And he led them forth by the right way, that they might go to a city of habitation. 8 Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men! 9 For he satisfieth the longing soul, and filleth the hungry soul with goodness. 10 Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, being bound in affliction and iron; 11 Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High: 12 Therefore he brought down their heart with labour; they fell down, and there was none to help. 13 Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them out of their distresses. 14 He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and brake their bands in sunder. 15 Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men! 16 For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder. 17 Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted. 18 Their soul abhorreth all manner of meat; and they draw near unto the gates of death. 19 Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saveth them out of their distresses. 20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions. 21 Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men! 22 And let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving, and declare his works with rejoicing. 23 They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; 24 These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep. 25 For he commandeth, and raiseth the stormy wind, which lifteth up the waves thereof. 26 They mount up to the heaven, they go down again to the depths: their soul is melted because of trouble. 27 They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man, and are at their wits' end. 28 Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses. 29 He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still. 30 Then are they glad because they be quiet; so he bringeth them unto their desired haven. 31 Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men! 32 Let them exalt him also in the congregation of the people, and praise him in the assembly of the elders. 33 He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry ground; 34 A fruitful land into barrenness, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein. 35 He turneth the wilderness into a standing water, and dry ground into watersprings. 36 And there he maketh the hungry to dwell, that they may prepare a city for habitation; 37 And sow the fields, and plant vineyards, which may yield fruits of increase. 38 He blesseth them also, so that they are multiplied greatly; and suffereth not their cattle to decrease. 39 Again, they are minished and brought low through oppression, affliction, and sorrow. 40 He poureth contempt upon princes, and causeth them to wander in the wilderness, where there is no way. 41 Yet setteth he the poor on high from affliction, and maketh him families like a flock. 42 The righteous shall see it, and rejoice: and all iniquity shall stop her mouth. 43 Whoso is wise, and will observe these things, even they shall understand the lovingkindness of the LORD. |
| 2016/12/2 20:11 | Profile | dfella Member

Joined: 2010/7/9 Posts: 295 Canton, Michigan
| Re: Psalms 107 | | Todd,
Thank you for the exception! Praise God! No, I absolutely do not believe what the Westboro Baptist folks are doing and it is grieves me deeply and makes me cringe. Hopefully because of your input in the form of a question I can try and make my thoughts clearer. We know homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of heaven UNLESS they turn from their sin and turn to God. God’s love is available to all homosexuals as well as all sinners right up to their last breath and that is what I would be pleading, reasoning, and encouraging them to accept.
BUT, if they choose not to turn, THEY, not God, will heap upon themselves Gods wrath, eternal separation, as well as Gods hatred should they end up dying in their sin.
As for 1 Corinthians 2:4, I would have to ponder and think upon that.
Regarding the end justifying the means, I agree that that can be true but because of Gods sovereignty and because Gods ways are not our ways neither are His thoughts our thoughts, the means, no matter how they may appear to us, God can, will, has, and will continue to use various means to accomplish His will as He sees fit.
While God mercifully used Edwards sermon on behalf of my brother, I would definitely NOT use nor employ that sermon on every one I meet. I believe that we should preach grace to the humble and the law to the proud.
Here is a portion that has helped me greatly when ministering to the lost. Jude 1:21-23 Keep yourselves in the LOVE of God, looking for the MERCY of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. (22) And of some have COMPASSION, making a difference: (23) And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
I believe Gods love to ALWAYS be our motivation in ministering to the lost and that we should also extend and be merciful and compassionate and doing so we will make a difference in people’s lives. I see this as a promise. Then verse 23 tells us on others, we save with fear, meaning there are times where we must be very truthful and candid and that is, if people will choose to continue in their rebellion and sin, they will bring upon themselves Gods wrath and ultimate hatred.
I have a question, When Jesus says that not everyone who comes to Him calling Him Lord will enter the Kingdom but he who does the will of the Father and then tells them to depart from Him who chose to practice lawlessness because He NEVER KNEW them. Obviously God knows everyone because He was there when they were conceived. When He says He never knew them, what does that mean? I don’t believe it to mean, God chose not to know them because He chose to die for them. I believe if we choose to reject and disobey God it is we who determines that He never knew us.
I am not being dogmatic, but this is how I see it in my heart and head. If I am wrong, I believe and trust God will show me.
Thank you again brother, to God be the glory always.
_________________ David Fella
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| 2016/12/2 21:34 | Profile | TMK Member

Joined: 2012/2/8 Posts: 6650 NC, USA
| Re: | | David- excellent post. Thank you.
Mark- I agree with everything you wrote. Very well stated.
I actually feel better now.
Love you guys. _________________ Todd
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| 2016/12/2 21:39 | Profile | dfella Member

Joined: 2010/7/9 Posts: 295 Canton, Michigan
| Re: | | Lord, thank You for this day that You have made and for the ability, freedom, and the choice You have given each and everyone of us here at SI who view, participate, and utilize the various resources that You have made available to us and the fact that we can choose to rejoice and be glad, grateful, and thankful for it.
Lord, I thank You for this topic and the many topics and threads You have put on the saints hearts to share and bring up and I pray Lord that You would allow Your Holy Spirit and the Spirit of unity to prevail in our discussions.
I ask You Father to help me in my posting and the many things that are in my spirit, heart, mind, and soul that I may share them with the brethren in the right spirit Lord.
Father You know I have no desire to convince men against their will neither do I have any desire to gain a following, I have no self seeking agenda Lord, and Lord you know I have no desire to debate, gender strife, sow seeds of discord, and bring about disunity or division.
Please Lord, help me to share the things you put in my heart with the saints here. I ask You to bless each and everyone Lord, Lord allow Your peace to settle and rest upon us Lord for we are Your sheep, Your lambs, and the people of Your pasture Heavenly Father. Holy Spirit I ask You to prevail in our discussions here on SI and bind the spirits of strife, division, discord, disunity, and pride in Jesus name.
Holy Spirit please open our understanding, grant us Your wisdom and open our hearts, our eyes, and our ears to what You would say. Lord it is Your will and not our own we desire, hunger, and thirst for.
Lord I need your strength and Your help to convey what is in my heart, not for my sake but for Your sake and the sake of the brethren. Lord please quicken my faith and calm any fear on my part to step out and speak Your words and not my own Lord.
Lord I ask this in the precious and holy Name of Your dear Son Jesus. Amen and Amen. _________________ David Fella
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| 2016/12/3 6:27 | Profile | dfella Member

Joined: 2010/7/9 Posts: 295 Canton, Michigan
| Re: | | Brethren,
As I laid down last night pondering this topic and everyone's comments and thoughts there are many things that come to mind. Like many of the topics and threads I have viewed, participated in, and even the one's I had chosen not to speak nor comment on God uses them to help me on my journey molding me and guiding me along the way.
My mind as I consider these things gets flooded with many thoughts, answers,and conclusions which I tend to keep to my self. I want to try and step out in faith and share more by Gods grace. The reason I don't step out is because I get overwhelmed and there is a bit of fear and intimidation that has hindered me.
Thank you all for the thoughts concerning my brother, his name is John. I say "is" because I believe it has been recorded in the Lambs book of life.
When pondering Gods love and whether God also hates the thoughts and words have come up that it is God who chooses and predestines men's end.
I would like to share what the Lord brought to mind this morning. I have a friend his name is Fred and his story is similar to my brother John in many ways as both these men struggled much of their lives trying to comprehend and receive Gods love. Both of these men were determined that we are merely puppets and that God is the One pulling all the strings. They believed we are robots or computers that God inputs information into and determines the path, result,and outcome that a robot or computer will produce.
We all have been taught when it comes to computers the term GIGO, garbage in, garbage out, as I thought on this it could also stand for good in, good out. But these men did not then realize that we are not robots, puppets, or computers but free moral agents with the God given ability to choose. This ability of choice was given to Adam and Eve in the garden in the very beginning in the Book of Genesis and God saw that everything He created was good. This includes our freedom to choose.
Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest FREELY eat: (17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
With our freedom of choice He tempers that freedom with a COMMAND. Meaning, even though God had also given us freedom to choose, He will not hinder us or stop us from choosing to disobey. If He did, then John and Fred would be right, we are then just robots, puppets, and computers.
Now, to Fred's story. I met Fred around the year 1998 as he came to rent a room in my mothers home. Fred lived in my mothers home for about 5 years. Fred was never married and has been pretty much alone his whole life with the exception of five siblings. Fred found solace in my mothers home and over time as I got to know him I would share the gospel with him.
Fred was a very angry man, he was very angry at God, and angry at his father. Fred and I would have many discussions about God and why God made us the way He did, and why God allows suffering, murder, rape, starvation. Fred really struggled with why did God create Adam and Eve knowing the devil would come and deceive them and bring about the fall of man.
Fred hated his father because he walked out on his mother and six children, Fred was also angry with God because he has a mild form of MS on one side of his body and has only been able to do menial jobs his whole life. He used to tell me that he would have dreams of running into his father in a restaurant and that Fred would walk up to him and punch him so hard that his head would explode.
For several years I would listen to Fred and would sow a little seed here and a little there, water a little here, and a little there.
One day my mother and I were watching a video sermon by Carter Conlon on forgiveness and Fred had come home and came in and sat with us. It was a powerful sermon and it had an effect on Fred. After the sermon, we had a discussion about forgiveness and his father came up and the discussion was about to get derailed and I kept sharing scriptures to answer his questions and he then got frustrated and said, "yeah, well that may be true, but I was born a catholic, raised a catholic, and will die a catholic!"
I then said if that was the case, he would then go to hell. Now, I normally do not speak so bluntly and even my statement caught my mother by surprise and she said I should not have said that to him. I then asked Fred when was the last time he had been to mass, he said it had been 25+ years, I asked him when was the last time he had said the rosary, again, it had been years, I asked several other things good working Catholics do and again, years if not ever.
I then told Fred he was nothing more than a hypocrite, and again a gasp from my mother and a look of shock on Fred's face. For years I had lovingly sown seeds of truth with Fred and was always gentle and kind with him always appealing with the invitation to reason.
We had many discussions on the topics of Gods love, Gods hate, whether we were free to choose or whether we ourselves made those choices over several years and finally this day Fred hung his dear head and said, "David, you are right".
Fred was a tough nut but Gods word and truth prevailed by Gods grace and Fred committed his life to Christ in 2002.
It took another couple of years of bible study, prayer, discussion, and Fred pondering in the night watches before Fred would come to that complete place of submission regarding the very issues we are discussing here.
While this testimony may not appear to have anything to do with the discussion or topic at hand there is more, this is merely a piece of the puzzle. Like with Fred and John, answers to life's questions cannot be answered in one post or one conversation.
With both these men it took years for Gods truth to prevail and accomplish what He desired for their good. But in the end it was their choice, they, not God, determined their own end. God simply sees and knew their beginning and end.
Please shoot a quick blessing and prayer up for Fred, he is a dear soul and lives quite a distance away so we cannot see each other often. I invite him for visits and holidays but he is getting on in years and is just content staying at home. He really is at peace and loves the Lord deeply. He has one brother and sister in law close by him that are both saved as well as their adult children.
I echo Todd's sentiments as well, I do love guys!
_________________ David Fella
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| 2016/12/3 8:12 | Profile | rbanks Member

Joined: 2008/6/19 Posts: 1330
| Re: | | Brethren I think the difference, that we misunderstand sometimes, is like the difference of being under law vs. being under grace.
Under the law we have God manifesting his anger/wrath toward the wicked who persist in their sin. This we see in the old testament.
Under grace, which we presently are now in the age of being in the new covenant, we have God's love being commended to us in the sacrifice of love by the death of Jesus on cross paying the penalty of our sins.
It is the goodness of God, in his grace toward us through Christ Jesus, that leads man to repentance.
We love him because he first loved us in paying the penalty for our sins to redeem us by the blood of his cross effective to all who believe in him.
We don't lead people to Christ today in this age of grace by telling sinners that God hates them because of their sin.
We must tell them that it was because of our sin/sins that Christ Jesus, in his great loved for us, had to die a cruel death on the cross to redeem us who will believe in Him.
blessings to all! |
| 2016/12/3 22:50 | Profile |
| Re: | | Quote:
We must tell them that it was because of our sin/sins that Christ Jesus, in his great loved for us, had to die a cruel death on the cross to redeem us who will believe in Him.
Yes amen brother...you are right. I pray we can all see this and have a revelation of this in our hearts. |
| 2016/12/4 2:07 | |
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