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JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: JFW - Grace not eternal and no grace in heaven?

Sister Jade,

Do you interpret "ages to come" as eternity?


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Fletcher

 2016/11/27 8:29Profile









 Re: Holiness Essential To Salvation

There is no doubt about Charles Finney's historical importance, but theologically he was untrained, and had some major gaffes in his tenets: for one, he didn't believe in original sin being passed down from Adam to the rest of mankind. Furthermore, he did not believe that Jesus' death on the cross (and subsequent resurrection) provided a substitutionary atonement for man's sins. Additionally, Finney believed that man could change his own nature without supernatural intervention, and that a mere decision to turn from sin to Christ could come from man's own will, and not the wooing of the Holy Spirit

Therefore I look to the Scriptures alone for doctrine.

 2016/11/27 8:34
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 1268
Australia

 Re: JFW - Grace not eternal and no grace in heaven?



Fletcher,

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

(7) In the ages to come.—Properly, the ages which are coming on—the ages both of time and of eternity, looked upon in one great continuity. Here, again, the manifestation of the riches of God’s grace is looked upon as His special delight, and as His chosen way of manifesting His own self to His creatures.


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Jade

 2016/11/27 8:48Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Alec

Isn't it awesome how our God can use a yielded vessel to magnify Christ and advance His kingdom, in spite of flaws in the vessel itself?
Personally I find that very encouraging:)

It reminds me of Revelations 2 where Jesus praises Ephesus for their "doctrine, theology and church discipline" and yet just like in 1 Cor 13, the love of God is and must remain the basis of the Christian life.
Personally I know some people who have an airtight doctrine and it's only because they wanna be "right" and as such they are quick to argue and defend their "rightness" on matters but they are unfortunately not so useful in advancing the Kingdom. This is not to underplay the value of good doctrine and theology, just to say even if those are perfect and we have not love we're not much use to God in the cause of Christ, whereas if we have the love of God shed abroad in our hearts He can use us mightily in spite of our doctrinal misgivings.


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Fletcher

 2016/11/27 9:14Profile









 Re:

" for one, he didn't believe in original sin being passed down from Adam to the rest of mankind. Furthermore, he did not believe that Jesus' death on the cross (and subsequent resurrection) provided a substitutionary atonement for man's sins."

If this is not heresy of the lowest order then what is?

This foundational and gross misrepresentation that underlined Finney's theological concepts poisoned everything else he taught. By undermining and spoiling the significance of the blood and work of the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ he created a new way to obtain salvation that was no salvation at all.

 2016/11/27 9:21
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Dear Sister,
Thank you for responding:)
In light of that interpretation would you be so kind as to share your definition of grace that would make it a fixture of heaven eternally?

Perhaps it's that we have a different understanding of what grace is and how it functions-
I've always heard that grace is "unmerited favor", which is of course true as no one could ever earn it tho my understanding is that biblical grace is "Gods divine influence on a persons heart"... is that view compatible with yours?


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Fletcher

 2016/11/27 9:21Profile









 Re:

Finney wasn't the only one to reject Augustine/Calvins doctrine of original sin but he was one of the loudest opponents ever and he only got louder after the Calvinists rejected him for disagreeing with them. Unless I am mistaken AB Simpson, Tozer and Paris Reidhead also rejected the doctrine of original sin and taught that a new born baby is sinless and only becomes a sinner when he willfully sins. Whether or not they were all wrong, it is indeed astounding that God used these flawed men to further the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 2016/11/27 10:26









 Re:

"it is indeed astounding that God used these flawed men to further the gospel of Jesus Christ."

He also used corrupt orthodox priests in communist Russia to speak the scriptures occasionally in their religious services; and people were saved not because of but in spite of them. God's Word cannot be corrupted and always accomplishes his purposes irrespective of the false doctrines being extracted from them,
My own mother, a catholic most of her life understood and believed the gospel because she began to read the scriptures in her latter days. This does not excuse those who twist the scriptures and teach false doctrine however.

Isaiah 55:11 So is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.




 2016/11/27 11:57
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Every church I have attended and every preacher I have heard in my almost 35 years of being a Christian believes and teaches things I don't agree with and think is wrong. That leaves me with two options, either start a church of me, myself and I where I will have pure doctrine, or accept that we are all growing in our knowledge and judge each teaching on it's own merit without pre judging based on who the person is labelled.

Why can't this be done with this teaching. If you have a disagreement with something that is written in the article posted, then explain why, but please don't just write off things based on a broad sweeping dismissal based on putting people in your theological heretic box.

It's highly probable that most of what has been said about Finney is based on false exaggeration and misquoting by those who don't like his stance against the lukewarm church of his day. I'm not saying he is perfect in all his teaching (who is) and I would probably find things I disagree with, but his messages should be evaluated as reqd not what people say about his supposed theological errors and are also to be taken in context with the Christainity of his day.


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Dave

 2016/11/27 12:29Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Charles Spurgeon on Charles Finney

While giving instruction it is wise to appeal to the understanding. True religion is as logical as if it were "not emotional. I am not an admirer of the peculiar views of Mr. Finney, but I have no doubt that he was useful to many; and his power lay in his use of clear arguments. Many who knew his fame were greatly disappointed at first hearing him, because he used few beauties of speech and was as calm and dry as a book of Euclid; but he was exactly adapted to a certain order of minds, and they were convinced and convicted by his forcible reasoning. Should not persons of an argumentative cast of mind be provided for? We are to be all things to all men, and to these men we must become argumentative and push them into a corner with plain deductions and necessary inferences. Of carnal reasoning we would have none, but of fair, honest pondering, considering, judging, and arguing the more thebetter." - CH Spurgeon


 2016/11/27 13:25Profile





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