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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

PetriFB-

If you are going to accuse the good men and women here on the forum of heresy, perhaps it is best for you to move on.

The belief that Jesus was filled by the Holy Spirit is mainstream.

You can believe whatever you want, but to accuse others of heresy who hold to a traditional understanding is ridiculous in the extreme.


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Todd

 2016/10/8 12:28Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Kenosis doctrine is heresy

Brother PetriFB,

May I ask why you categorize a different understanding of scripture as heresy, as that is quite an accusation?
There are (amongst believers) quite allot of differences in understanding which, as you know, have led to division and in some cases done damage to the body of Christ.
I'm not marginalizing your position, just asking you to reconsider your approach to this discussion as it may be more profitable to approach it from an angle where the person with a different understanding isn't immediately labeled and ultimately dismissed as a heretic...

That's not to say that there isn't heresies, there certainly are and we are called to rebuke them, tho always with a spirit of humility and with the intent to restore the deceived party.

(For me) When testing wether a thing is heretical, my first question is "does
the Bible clearly state the opposite without the need of interpretation?" Because it could be, and often is, that people come to differing conclusions while reading the same passage of scripture and that is a matter of interpretation.
For example; the Bible clearly and repeatedly states that Jesus is Lord. It says this implicitly and there can be no argument based on interpretation so if someone held the position that "Jesus isn't Lord" then that would definitively a heretical position.
As for the "Jesus is God, always was, always is, always will be" position, while most people I know hold to this position- the Bible doesn't implicitly say that..... so it's a matter of interpretation.
Also I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you believe the scriptures don't clearly and implicitly state that Jesus is God the same way it does Jesus is Lord?
It seems in most epistles, in the greeting as well as in the salutations there is a clear clear distinction being made between "God the Father and Jesus the Lord",... why do you think Holy Spirit directed the writers to make this distinction?

Thanks for your attention and patience dear brother:)


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Fletcher

 2016/10/8 15:16Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 PetriFB

Hi PetriFB ,

Luke 22:42 Jesus said : "Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."

I am not sure if I am understanding your points ? but how does versus such as the above fit into your understanding ?

 2016/10/9 14:14Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re: PetriFB

Think on the (FAITH) that Jesus had to accomplish all that the Father, Himself and the Holy Spirit, Jesus the Son of God to be able to do it.

No wonder we need the faith of Jesus Christ to accomplish anything for the Father.

Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Jesus had the Faith of the whole God Head, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. There is nothing beyond this, the Faith of God. Wow, what is left? Nothing, it is all done in the Faith of Jesus Christ and because of; He that is birthed in me, I live by the faith of the Son of God. Satan hates this and wants to keep us away from this faith and lies to us saying we must have our own faith, and it is by your own faith that will accomplish things for God. "You will surely not die"

Even in the face of all Jesus put upon Himself at the Cross, just to make it possible for me? Me to be a son of our Father and brother in complete heirship to all that Jesus has given us by His Faith of His Father, which is Faith above and beyond of what we can even think.

Ephesians 1:19-23 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Praise God that this faith is not of myself, but the Faith of the Son of God by which I now live in the flesh looking forward to the upward calling of God In Christ Jesus our Lord. My faith can still fail, and I thank God no one can take me out of the arms of Jesus or the Fathers hands, but The Faith of Jesus Christ never did fail, so I pray that the Faith of the Son of God be given us without measure.

Just read Eph 1, over and over and over, which brings me to heavenly places in Him.

Phillip


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Phillip

 2016/10/9 18:11Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
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 Re:

Luke 4:1 Then Jesus, ***being filled with the Holy Spirit***, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, (my emphasis)


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Todd

 2016/10/9 19:47Profile
dolfan
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Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

I am having a very difficult time understanding the point of the OP. It almost seems like it is answering a question no one is asking. Has anyone -- here, at least -- believed that Jesus lacked any of His deity while He lived in His sinless and not yet glorified flesh? If so, please admit it or show us where someone has said as much. PetriFB you seem genuinely concerned about our submission to the truth of who Jesus is, but what I can't make up my mind on is if you think we aren't walking in the truth of Scripture's revelation of Him.


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Tim

 2016/10/10 9:57Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

I think the main bone of contention is that the OP argues that Jesus did not give up any of his aspects of deity during his earthly ministry. I agree that Jesus was fully God but that he emptied his divine characteristics (i.e. He was fully human) while on the earth.

The OP would argue that when Jesus did miracles he did them because he was God and God can do anything. I believe that Jesus did not "access" his deity to perform miracles. He relied on his relationship with the Father (to know what He wanted done) and acted through the power of the HS.

Further, I do not believe that Jesus was omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent during his time on earth. Those aspects of his divinity, while very true and real, we're not available to Him.


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Todd

 2016/10/10 10:31Profile
StirItUp
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Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Absolutely Todd,

To be a perfect savior of men Jesus had to become a man in every sense of the word, to be tempted as all men are, yet without sin.

He was born as a man, lived as a man, ministered as a man, died as a man and rose from the dead and ascended into heaven a glorified man.

Jesus is: " Our Man in Heaven"

Blessings,


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William

 2016/10/10 10:41Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brothers Todd and William

Amen! Amen! AMEN!

Between the two of you, my understanding has been well articulated and it's somewhat comforting to hear it from another brothers mouth :)


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Fletcher

 2016/10/10 10:50Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

That is it Todd. The incarnation is Jesus condescending to our state in order that He might truly be our perfect high priest. He was in all points tempted like as we are. God cannot be tempted by evil. Yet Jesus was. I totally agree. He was obviously not omnipresent, nor was he omniscient or omnipotent while on earth. He was fully God in identity, yet he operated on earth as fully man, receiving His strength, power, and identity from the Father, through the Holy Spirit, just as we must do. This is why we can walk in absolute victory as well. He is our example. He is our victory.

I absolutely LOVE to study the incarnation. God is so good. Oh, how great is His love for us, that He would do what He did. He gave it all so we could have it all when we give it all.


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Travis

 2016/10/10 15:38Profile





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