| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: Why should we not pray for persecution? | | Brother Blaine, beloved,
allow me to bring up that precious Portion you quoted from James.
James 1:2-4
"Consider it a great joy, my brothers, whenever you experience various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. But endurance must do its complete work, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing."
let me zero in: "whenever you experience various trials..."
allow me to testify, I AM experiencing "various trials", in this jar of clay, at this moment...and as the LORD leads, and loves, it is because my Flame of Faith has grown ....limp?...dying to an ember, and like an earthly father who disciplines, that is the Work being done on me.
Why?
May I testify further? in days past the LORD gave me a Call....or Callings, and in my unprofitability, with the gifts He has given, the Flame has gone into an ember, thru slothfulness, or just that we are mere vapors, flesh...there is no excuse on my part, but Glory to God, there is Holy Ghost conviction!!!
when its happening....NOW...doesn't "feel" good, but Godly discipline isn't supposed to "feel good"...or as God graced me this very morning, whilst eating of the Second Letter to the Corinthians...here it is:
"For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death." 2 Corinthians 7:10 (ESV)
Oh, what succor that Word is!!...and the LORD is doing a purging work on me, the refiners fire....its doesn't seem appropriate, nor wise, on a public forum to go into detail, unpacking this season in my life in Messiah Jesus.
in loving respect I say; you don't have to "pray" for persecution, it will come, and it is already here, and we might just find, the REAL persecution will come from the religionist's , not from outsiders....I have 1700 years of "church" history to buttress that forthtelling.....but that's all I want to write on THAT.
instead, let me conclude with one of my favorite SIMPLE prayers the 12 said to Messiah....."increase our Faith!"
amen.
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|  2016/9/3 10:02 | |
| | Re: | | Neil,
I will pray for you during this time my friend. May you cling to the horns of the altar, embrace the cross & willingly submit to the the refiners fire, & not lose faith, but grow in faith, Grace, mercy, love, zeal, fervor & humility.
Julius,
I'm not talking about "comparing ourselves to one another" in some unhealthy or ungodly way. When Jesus spoke in context of the Pharisees who "when they compare themselves by themselves, they are not wise", He was speaking of self-righteous comparison. Totally different. What I am talking about is plain common sense: me being persecuted by my family treating me as "a crazy" because of my faith, or my boss scolding me for boldly witnessing to someone, etc. is "different" than my Muslim father trying to kill me for Allah's honor or getting arrested and being thrown in prison for preaching by the secret police. It's just common sense. It's just like how it may be a "trial" for someone if they stump their toe & crack their big toenail, but to not be willing through common sense to say that is a "different level" of trial from going through radiation & chemotherapy treatment for stage 5 aggressive pancreatic cancer. Pure common sense. And even in the scriptures in Hebrews 12 it makes a comparative distinction between trials/persecution that has not been to the point of bloodshed with that that has when it says:
3Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. 4In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood."
Obviously Jesus had shed blood for them & other saints then & throughout would shed their blood for Jesus, & the author of Hebrews is making a comparative distinction (just common sense really).
And in Revelation 20, the Lord singles out (a form of comparative distinction) those who specifically were beheaded for their testimony (which is a whole prophetic marker to futurism in itself in addition to all the other indicators in the surrounding passages that beheading would be the primary, if not exclusive, form of death these he saw would have suffered - and people were primarily crucified, burnt alive, etc. down through the ages, not "beheaded" specifically aside from predominately the Islamic eras both past & the presently reviving Islamic caliphate - but I digress):
"Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."
So yes, we aren't to "compare" our righteousness or deeds with others, but to not be able to use common sense & say persecution in China, The USSR, Nazi Germany, under Nero/Dimentian/Titus/Antiochus/etc., in the Middle East, under ISIS, etc. is DIFFERENT (& much more costly) than here in the West is naive. As much so as saying stumping your toe is painful too, so "don't compare it" to having an infected appendage amputated and permanently removed. I am beginning the preparing of a message for the International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church November 6th, so thanks for helping cause me to think these things through Biblically and answer such questions & objections Biblically.
God Bless,
Jeff |
| | 2016/9/3 11:05 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
by jeffmar1130 on 2016/9/3 11:05:15
I'm not talking about "comparing ourselves to one another" in some unhealthy or ungodly way. When Jesus spoke in context of the Pharisees who "when they compare themselves by themselves, they are not wise", He was speaking of self-righteous comparison.
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some THAT COMMEND THEMSELVES: but they MEASURING THEMSELVES BY THEMSELVES, and COMPARING THEMSELVES AMONG THEMSELVES, are not wise.
2Co 10:13 But we will not BOAST OF THINGS without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you.
2Co 10:14 For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:
2Co 10:15 NOT BOASTING OF THINGS WITHOUT OUR MEASURE, THAT IS, OF OTHER MEN'S LABOURS; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
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| | 2016/9/3 12:34 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
by StirItUp on 2016/9/3 2:25:36
Amen.
All who desire to live godly lives WILL suffer persecution!
No two ways about it. You won't have to pray for it, it will surely come.
From family, social media, government laws contrary to God, religious people, sinners who hate having their sins exposed etc.
Our prayer for one another should be in accordance with the apostles and with Christ: for unity in the body, for enlightened hearts and minds,for the work of the Spirit in and through us, revival etc. and of course for whatever specific needs we may have.
Blessings,
Amen, William.
I am reading through Paul's prayers again. They really give me a lot of insight into the character of God and I am recognizing areas where I need to make some adjustments.
1.) FOR GODLY LIVING:
-- 1Ti 2:1-2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
-- 2Co 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
-- 2Co 13:9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.
-- Php 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
-- Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
-- 1Th 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you: To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
-- 1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
-- 2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
2.) FOR MINISTRY OPPORTUNITY AND SUCCESS:
-- Rom. 1:9-11 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
-- Rom. 15:30-31 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me; That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;
-- Col. 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me; That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;
-- 1Th 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
-- 2 Thes. 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
-- 2 Thes. 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
-- Phile.1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
3.) FOR STRENGTHENING:
-- Eph. 3:16-17 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
-- Col. 1:10-11 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
-- 1 Thes. 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
-- 2 Thes. 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
4.) FOR INCREASED KNOWLEDGE...
A. OF THE LORD
-- Eph. 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
-- Col. 1:9-10 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
B. Of HIS WILL:
-- Phil. 1:9-10 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
-- Col. 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
C. OF HIS LOVE:
-- Eph. 3:17-19 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
D. OF THE HOPE OF HIS CALLING:
-- Eph. 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
-- Phile.1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
F. OF HIS POWER:
-- Eph. 1:18-19 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
5.) FOR MORE LOVE:
-- Phil. 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
-- 1 Thes. 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
-- 2 Thes. 3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
6.) FOR GRACE AND PEACE:
-- 1 Cor. 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Also similarly: 2 Cor. 1:2, 2 Cor. 13:14, Gal. 1:3, Gal 6:18, Eph. 1:2, Eph. 6:23-24, Phil. 1:2, Phil 4:23, Col. 1:26, 1 Thes. 1:1b, 1 Thes. 5:28, 2 Thes. 1:2, 1 Tim. 1:2, 1 Tim 6:21b, 2 Tim 1:2, Tit. 1:4, Phile. 1:3)
-- 2 Thes. 3:16 Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all.
7.) FOR CHRISTIANS TO BE IN ONE ACCORD:
-- Rom. 15:5-6 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
8.) FOR ISRAEL'S SALVATION:
-- Rom. 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
9.) FOR CHRIST TO DWELL IN OUR HEARTS THROUGH FAITH:
-- Eph. 3:14-17 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
10.) FOR MORE HOPE:
-- Rom. 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
11.) FOR THE FULLNESS OF GOD:
-- Eph. 3:17-19 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
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| | 2016/9/3 12:36 | |
| | Re: | | Julius,
Aside from the 1 Corinthians passage and what I already stated context seems to indicate clearly, I just wanted to say I really enjoyed your other post on Paul's prayers in the NT. Good stuff indeed!
God Bless,
Jeff |
| | 2016/9/3 13:38 | | dohzman
Member
Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132
| | Brother Neil | | Mat 12:20
A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
Isa 49:16
See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands;
Your walls are continually before Me.
A month ago the Lord laid you on my heart for prayer.
God Bless Bro. DMiller
_________________
D.Miller
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| | 2016/9/3 14:15 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Julius,
And to see your point #8 and that because of Paul's words in scripture (you cited Romans 10:1 specifically) you'll be taking more seriously praying for Israel's salvation was awesome. Truly. Not one ounce of guile in my statement either. That caused my heart to dance & rejoice, truly.
In Jesus,
Jeff |
| | 2016/9/3 15:00 | |
| | Re: Brother Neil | | Oh, I LOVE that verse. Charles H. Spurgeon preached an AMAZING sermon on Matthew 12:20...You should check it out... |
| | 2016/9/3 15:11 | |
| | Re: | | Amen.
YOU WROTE:
All who desire to live godly lives WILL suffer persecution!
No two ways about it. You won't have to pray for it, it will surely come.
From family, social media, government laws contrary to God, religious people, sinners who hate having their sins exposed etc.
Our prayer for one another should be in accordance with the apostles and with Christ: for unity in the body, for enlightened hearts and minds,for the work of the Spirit in and through us, revival etc. and of course for whatever specific needs we may have.
Blessings,
MY RESPONSE:
Amen |
| | 2016/9/3 15:13 | | StirItUp
Member
Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa
| | Re: | | Thanks for the list, Julius.
We should all print it and make these part of our prayer time!
Love you all, brothers and sisters!
The Lord give you sweet sleep tonight 🙂
_________________
William
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| | 2016/9/3 17:22 | Profile |
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