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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : ISIS Kill List Names 15,000 Christian Americans Targeted for Death

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Joined: 2002/12/11
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

If you are a pastor or ministry leader in the USA you can check your name here to see if you are on the list:

http://counterjihad.com/are-you-on-the-list/

I believe they have the updated new list of 15,000.


this scripture is soon coming to pass, it will not just be ISIS who is targeting believers in the West:

Matthew 24:9-10 New International Version (NIV)

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/8/5 11:08Profile
ThyKingCome
Member



Joined: 2011/4/19
Posts: 169
Southern CA

 Re:

I went to take a look at it and you have to leave your full name and e-mail address just to "look" at the list. I'm sure the Apostle Paul would be on this list if he were alive today. Our best defense is staying close to Christ, ready for His return and being in the will of God. Our days are numbered by the Almighty, not I**S.

Love to you Brethren.


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Brother Kevin

 2016/8/5 12:32Profile









 Re:

I agree. If you study it out and see the validity in an Islamic Antichrist (as opposed to some European leader out of nowhere), you see it's related closeness is possibly nearer than we might now see.

And by the way, it was $40 MILLION that poor (but naive after World Vision already showed its true colors from the top down) mostly Christians have to World Vision only to have it fun need to Hamas in the Gaza Strip for rockets & support to attack Israel, dig tunnels, etc. Wow. That's what happens when they are "infiltrated" because the naivety & anti-semitism of heart is so deep that appointed Muslims named Mohammed over Palestinian Arabs to protect them from that big bad wolf Israel. In a vote, Most of the Palestinian Arab Christians would MUCH rather be under the rule of Israel again rather than Hamas (or the PLO in the West Bank). That's a fact.

Check this short 8 minute YouTube clip out from Dr. Michael Brown dispelling the lies and propaganda that even many naive Christians are swallowing whole like many German Christians did Hitler's programs a lies:

The Truth about Israel, Islam, & Palestinian Christians
https://youtu.be/Ur7cBt_nrAg

 2016/8/5 12:35









 Re:

And for those looking for a Roman European Antichrist & saying an Islamic Antichrist perspective is "just some new fad" or "a Lone Ranger theory" or whatever, please feel free to check this out as well. Or those saying Gog is Russian & not Turkish. I think good brothers (Frank, I'm thinking of you brother) may be surprised to find out how much meat is actually on these bones both scripturally & historically all the way back to even the early church.

Joel's Underground Episode 48, Is Gog the Antichrist? A Historical Perspective.
https://youtu.be/Aef-ieQmsWY

 2016/8/5 12:59
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re: "Heydave" - Underground Church in scripture

Quote:
by Heydave on 2016/8/5 7:07:01

Can you show me the scriptures on this please (i.e in regard to this type of persecution).



I will attempt to do so, but may I first ask what you mean by "this type"?

I see ISIS as an aggressive self-recognized (antichrist) government/state that is seeking world domination and the elimination of Christianity (among others) and murders and tortures people in the most brutal fashion in order to achieve its goal...

I also don't see anywhere in scripture that there are some forms of persecution that we can/should flee or exercise caution toward and others' which we are forbidden to... Can you show me this precept in the word of God?

Thank you.


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~ Forrest

 2016/8/5 13:15Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Brother Forest,

I am not the one claiming any justification from scripture for hiding from persecution. I think the onus is on you to give evidence to your statement that the NT teaches us to flee persection and go underground. As the subject at hand is a about this particular Islamic group which is operating in a sporadic, limited way in the West. It is fighting against anyone who is not part of their sect, not just Christians , that is what I mean by 'this type'. Even if they end up having worldwide domination as you suggest, they are certainly nowhere near that at present.

My opinion is that those who are in countries such as North Korea, where the state is actively persecuting Christisns wholesale and preventing the gospel being preached are in a very different situation than you or I are at present. If we end up in a similar situation, then as others have said, going underground may well be neccesary to maintain an effective church for the gospel to be spread undercover, but we ARE NOT there now!

If Christians take your postion and hide in fear of ISIS, we would probably be the only group to do so. What testimony would that be to others like Jews, Kurds, Yazidis, or even your average worldly person who they hate and have killed? What does that say about our faith? I'm sure if an Islamic terrorist read this he would be laughing in contempt and see it as weakness and to his mind show we do not believe what we claim to be true.

I'm not judging you as an individual, but questioning the premise that Christians should withdraw from being a 'city on a hill' and a 'lamp on a stand' in the face of such threats.

We can certainly find evidence in scripture where the apostles escaped death and capture, but we don't find they went 'underground'. They just escaped one particular situation so they could pop up somewhere else and carry on their very public evangelism. Did Stephen go underground? Did Paul cease preaching and being well known because of a hostile reception? Rhetorical! Were not all but one of the apostles martyred?

Jesus said that those who live a godly life will be persecuted. Have we in the Western church become so soft that we think persecution just involves being disliked and not getting a promotion? Our brethren in many nations currently face very real danger because they are faithful to their Lord, but the majority of these would not consider hiding and meeting in secret unless they were forcef to, i.e. it becomes illegal.


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Dave

 2016/8/5 16:59Profile
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re: Heydave

You seem to make a lot of assumptions about my position and jump to a lot of conclusions regarding it. I wonder if you are really concerned with hearing me out and discussing what I am actually saying or not...

I perceive that this is not a discussion that I want to engage in any longer. Farewell.


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~ Forrest

 2016/8/5 17:29Profile









 Re:

,
Brothers I do not believe there is a one-size-fits-all strategy when one is dealing with persecution in different nations. When you look at the Open Doors Watch List which contains the 50 top countries where persecution is evident. The strategy of going underground in nations like North Korea and Eritrea will differ from those nations that are at the lower part of the list were persecution is not so extreme.

In each country the believers will have to depend upon wisdom of the Holy Spirit in terms of how they react to the persecution in that nation. Consider the words of our Lord Jesus below.

Matthew 10:16-23

“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

“But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.

Our Lord Jesus is laying forth a broad strategy that believers will employ in different ways depending on the persecution intensity of the situation they are in. There will be times that they will have to escape and go to another city. But He also indicates that they will possibly be taken before the authorities. And in that time they are to depend on the Holy Spirit of what to say. But again the Holy Spirit Will instruct the believers what to do in each and every situation of persecution. Our hearts are to be yielded to Him in submission to receive His wisdom in the persecution situation we are in.

Personally I am not worried about my name being on the list of jihadist to take out. But I see a far greater danger here in America. Someone could very easily engage me in a conversation about what the Bible says about homosexuality. My words to them could be gentle and wise. The conversation may be conciliatory. But the person I'm engaging the conversation with could very well be a member of the LBGT community. Thus I could be charged later on with a hate crime. My Bible or new testament could be construed as a hate book.

It is my understanding that already in Canada the Bible is considered a hate book. And pastors are being charged with hate crimes if they speak out that homosexuality is a sin.

I think it's only a matter of time before America will follow suit. I do not think it far beyond the realm of possibility that men such as John MacArthur or Paul Washer would be taken out of their respective churches in handcuffs to a waiting government SUV and charged with a federal hate crime. Yes they would be declaring the truth that in the eyes of Jesus homosexuality is a sin. But in the eyes of society they would be arrested for preaching hate against a particular group.

Our brother Frank always reminds us that those believers in times past were persecuted because they spoke the truth of Jesus Christ. This I see is the more immediate concern that will bring about the persecution of believers in America. And this will require wisdom from God to us on how we will stand and respond to speak the truth of Christ.


As usual these are always my thoughts.

 2016/8/5 17:31









 Re:

.
Though I am not fearful. I'm certainly mindful of the hostile environment the followers of Jesus are experiencing in America.

In times past a pastor could preach passages the dealt with the issue of homosexuality being a sin in the eyes of God without fear of government prosecution. But because of the hate crime laws I don't think pastors will have that freedom anymore. Not unless they are willing to risk Federal Prison.

Even to state one's convictions that marriage in the eyes of God is between a man and a woman can probably Land one in jail. As LBGT might construe this as inflammatory language against their lifestyle.

I think these issues are far more pressing up on believers today then what ISIS conceivably may do to us in the future.

Again these are simply my thoughts.

 2016/8/5 17:46
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re:

Quote:
by bearmaster on 2016/8/5
Our brother Frank always reminds us that those believers in times past were persecuted because they spoke the truth of Jesus Christ. This I see is the more immediate concern...



I'm sure you are aware that the hatred that ISIS (and Islam) has for Christians is due to the Truth of Jesus Christ...

1) Jesus is the Son of God.
2) Mohammed is not a prophet of God.
3) One cannot achieve justification through "submission" or any fleshly law...
And, 4) Islam is therefore a "false way"...

This makes ISIS terror/persecution aimed at Christians a direct result of "the truth of Jesus."

Also, you say (regarding the state and homosexuality):
Quote:
I think these issues are far more pressing up on believers today then what ISIS conceivably may do to us in the future.



I am not denying the potential and very real threat coming from the state and regarding the issue of "homosexuality" (as it's called by the world, God has less polite terms for sin, but I'll go with their word for our purposes here) - but what "ISIS may conceivably do to us in the future" seems a bit naive...

ISIS (as well as "fundamental Islam" in general) has successfully inspired many "lone wolf" attacks, and more than a few here in the US. Not the least of them the attack on the perverse "nightclub" in Orlando...the San Bernardino mass shooting...a beheading in Oklahoma...

Here is a link of what "the world" even recognizes as linked to ISIS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL

And I'm sure there are more and many that were thwarted. And there is no doubt many more to come:
http://www.vocativ.com/333894/isis-video-threatens-christians-in-the-u-s-canada-australia/

http://www.newsmax.com/US/isis-threat-convert-islam/2015/10/06/id/694901/

Respectfully, brother, I don't see this as either a threat not linked to "the truth of Jesus" or as one yet distant and improbable...

Knife attacks, running people down with trucks, beheadings in broad daylight, and much more have already been happening all over the western world...and they are calling for the targeting of Christians and the "booby-trapping" of their homes and the like...

I am simply calling my brothers to be "as wise as serpents", that's all.

Blessings,


_________________
~ Forrest

 2016/8/5 18:18Profile





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