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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Two natures in every believer?

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 Re: who is "Jim Fowler"?

You know what they say Neil,
A heretic a day keeps the truth away.

 2016/8/1 10:29

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2219


If there are questions about Jim Fowler please open another thread and explain why you think there are questions. Starting another thread and in so doing respecting this thread is very easy to do. Please leave this thread and its subject as is. Thank you in advance.

David Winter

 2016/8/1 10:56Profile


Here is some of Fowler's foul replacement religion teachings on Israel that J promotes here on a regular basis.

"Israel of God
Just as hieroglyphics were pictures with a meaning, in like manner God used pictorial representation to explain what He intended. One of God's pictorial preliminaries was the nation of Israel."

(Fowler said here the Israel was just a picture of what God was doing, just using them as an illustration of his eternal purpose and then to be discarded)

"As a physical people and nation they represented the spiritual peoples who would receive the resurrection-life of Jesus Christ; people who had striven with God and surrendered to God and in whom God now rules (Gen. 32:28; 35:10)."

(Fouler postulates his opinion here that God is finished with Israel because they were just set pieces in the grand scheme of things. Used up and kicked out and replaced by the church)

"This it is that Christians are now the "Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16), though not descended from physical Israel (Rom. 9:6). Christ rules as risen Lord in the lives of the holy nation (I Peter 2:9) of Christian Israel, that is all Christians who have received His resurrection-life by faith and are living by faith."

(Again more nonsense from Fowlers warped views regarding salvation and the the Jewish nation)

"Kingdom of God
The "kingdom of God" is another figure that God used to pre-figure His intent. The Jews conceived of the kingdom of God as a nationalistic kingdom with a Jewish king in the realm of Palestine. There are still Zionist expectations in Judeo-Christian religion today, focusing on a futuristic physical millennial kingdom in Palestine."

(He concludes with this utter self fabricated nonsense and ultimately a demonic view that is replacement baloney.)

 2016/8/1 11:56

Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1773

 Re: Only Old man was put to death not the flesh

The Basic flaw in Docs original posting is he assumed that the verses that tell that Old Man was put to death as the sin nature being put to death as well. To understand the difference we need to find the difference between 'old man' and 'flesh'. Many Christians do not know the difference that is why they believe in the errors.

'Old man' is the man who was under the control of his flesh. He yielded to his flesh freely without any resistance.

But when we are born again, as the scripture says, God kills the Old man and a new man is born inside us of the Spirit of God. This new man automatically craves for doing the will of God and resisting the flesh.

But flesh still remains the same. In Romans 7 Paul ends saying - " Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with MY FLESH the law of SIN."

So though Jesus Christ has saved him and enabled him to serve the Law of God, his flesh still was serving the law of sin. This proves that our flesh will remain the same even before and after we are born again.

The Flesh does not change. That is why we should put no confidence in the flesh (Philippians 3:3). Even the greatest saint should put no confidence in his own flesh because it will still remain corrupt.

This is practical, just think of the dirty thoughts that are still coming from Flesh. Can any one of you Deny that they get absolutely no dirty thoughts in their mind? No one can.

But we can choose not to entertain these thoughts and make our mind listen to the Spirit. This way we are asked to daily crucify our flesh by not yielding to its desires.

Gal 5:24:- " Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

The crucifixion discussed here in Gal 5:24 is not the death that we had with Jesus when we are born again. It is the daily death that we should have by carrying his cross and crucify the flesh. Crucifixion is a very slow painful death. So even if we crucify the flesh in one area, it does not prove that we have killed the flesh. It might still be alive like how the thief on the cross was alive while his legs were being broken.

So to believe that we have no sinful nature or flesh that is basically against the ways of Spirit is unscriptural and also not practical. One has to close his eyes to his own christian status to believe in such a lie. Just examine yourself, you can find the truth. No more theology needed!

As DOC claims if the sin is in the Body and not in the Flesh which is part of Soul then what is the purpose of God throwing the Soul in hell for the sins committed by the body? Body is just a vehicle as pointed by Paul in Romans 8. It can either be used as a vehicle of Righteousness by yielding to Spirit or Vehicle of unrighteousness by yielding to Flesh.


 2016/8/1 12:12Profile

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2219


The only problem is that the OP and this thread are not about Jim Fowler or his brand of replacement theology. It's about the teaching that there are still two natures within each believer and the comments and bit of discussion have been good so far.

So, I asked specifically if there are questions about Jim Fowler to please open another thread to discuss these questions. And you ignored my sincere request and did just the opposite and went ahead and did your thing which is totally unrelated to the OP and the subject of this thread. What I am asking is known as common courtesy and proper forum etiquette. That does not seem so hard to understand. So again, if Jim Fowler and his views raise questions then please take it up in another thread.

David Winter

 2016/8/1 12:17Profile


Hear hear David. It gets very frustrating for those who follow the rules when the badly behaved won't.

 2016/8/1 12:24

 Re: You are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit in union with Christ

Being dead, resurrected, and in union with Christ makes you a whole new being and gives you a whole new mentality/identity. Since the Old Man (union with Satan) is dead, that "self-centered" power source is gone in us. Think about it: what can a dead person do? "Well, NOTHING"! Basically, we don't live our own lives any more. We have to totally depend on the RESURRECTED LIFE of Christ to be our life. So therefore we are crucified with Christ, we are raised in union with Christ, and ascended in union with Christ. That is the living gospel in operation.

As long as Satan lies to you and you believe him, you are the one who gives him power. And, if you want to talk about "free will," here it is: it is your choice. Which is it? Believe Satan's lies, or believe the truth of the Gospel?

When a Christian believes the lie of "my own self-life," a false reality comes into being and Satan counterfeits the truth and changes it into a lie and deceives the Christian who believes it. This is the very nature of deception, and is exactly how Satan gets power over Christians. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. The answer is as simple as switching minds: "You are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit in union with Christ" (Rom. 8:9)! "You are not just you, you are joined to Christ; He is your life" (I Cor. 6:17; Col. 3:4).

We Christians are of Jesus (The Truth), and not of the Lie. So as children of Truth, believe what Colossians 3:9 says, "Lie not one to another seeing you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him." Do you hear what the scripture is saying? STOP lying about yourself. See that? You already have put off the old man (Rom. 6:6) and you have already put on the New Man. "When did I do that," you ask? When you were put into Christ at your conversion. You were baptized into union with Him at the Cross. So, you derive your righteousness and holiness from His Life and declare by faith that you are righteous and holy by virtue of His righteousness IN you.

Jesus Christ has redeemed us; He has reconciled us to the Father; He re-"gene"-ed us with a new genealogy; He restored our soul; He healed our body; He justified us; He sanctified us; and, He did it all by the transforming power of the Cross. Christ was made sin on our behalf that we might be made His righteousness (II Cor. 5:21). Sin means being indwelt with a satanic sin nature, producing self- centeredness, blindness, pride of life, vain glory, love of the world, the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, envy, strife, separation from God, and so on. Christ died to all these misuses and has raised us up together in union with Himself in His holy life making us a New Creation. Believe God and live in union with Christ.

"According as his divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of HIM that has called you to glory and virtue; Whereby are given unto us exceedingly great and precious promises, that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust" (II Pet. 1:3-4).

Stand by faith in the fact that you are already delivered. Are you still manifesting some dark behaviors? It's only because Satan has you believing that you are permanently trapped AND THERE IS NO DELIVERANCE.

 2016/8/1 15:00

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2219


Thank you Sree for your comments.

Christ died to redeem us totally - body, soul and spirit and gave us a new nature by the Spirit of Christ coing to dwell within us. I agree there is still work to do by crucifying the law of sin still arousing the members of our body. But even it has been killed and can be subdued and put in its place by FAITH in what was accomplished at Calvary and by resting in the new nature placed within us. Balance is needed here but the flesh is overcome by the power of the new nature within us. The unpure thoughts we have come from our mind or brain which is apart of the body. If the body dies and begins to undergo corruption the brain has died also and will undego corruption and decay because it is a physical organ also subject to corruption and decay. But we are ransomed and redeemed with a price we could not pay and part of the blessed hope is the eventual redemption of our body (and mind/brain) when this bodily corruption is changed and the perisable becomes inperishable by putting on immortality in place of mortality - I Cor 15:52-53. Meanwhile, the new nature within gives us the desire and ability to subdue the body until that day. We can't relax upon being born again as you rightly point out but we are not supposed to strive so mightily as we do against the flesh to no avail when done outside the power of the sinless new nature within. Yes I said sinless because Christ within cannot sin. It doesn't mean that we don't sin but relying on the Sinless One within gives us a substantial victory over sin in this life though a victory not to be completely realized until our change that will come in the twinkling of an eye.

When the body of sin was detroyed at Calvary Christ died for our iniquity (Isa 53:6) and our iniquities (Isa 53:5).

5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our INIQUITIES;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.

6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the INIQUITY of us all
To fall on Him.

The iniquity was what we were born with, original sin. The iniquities were the many sins and transgressions we commited because of the ever present iniquity in us because of our very nature. Iniquities stem from iniquity. Christ bore both our iniquity and our iniquities therefore the body of sin was broken and slain at Calvary.

David Winter

 2016/8/1 16:30Profile

Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 756

 tuc: "When I first came to Christ......."

Wonderful testimony, tuc. Absolutely agree.

“Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.” (Rom. 8:1-2 NASB)


 2016/8/2 10:26Profile

Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2006
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Two natures in every believer?

I will be very honest and say that I have never found a verse in scripture that says that we have a sin nature. I think the closest we can come is to say that we were born in sin. But one thing in scripture is very clear, and that is that our spirit was born again and made righteous at salvation. We are told clearly that we were crucified with Christ and that the old man is dead.

But, we do still have unregenerate flesh. Our spirit was born again, but our body and mind was not. And that body and mind still have lusts, cravings, desires, that are not according to the born again spirit. So we are told to put off concerning the old man many things and to put on concerning the new man other things. We are told to renew our minds and to put our lusts to death.

I believe if we find ourselves constantly battling what we believe to be the "old nature" we could possible be living after the flesh and strengthening the flesh with its lusts through what we are paying attention to and feeding ourselves.

As far as a duality of natures, I cannot find this anywhere in scripture. Rather, I find much that says the opposite.

Brenda: I am in firm agreement with you that Romans 7 is Paul talking about his struggle to keep the law of God through his own efforts and self-will before he was born again. But after he was born again, he walked in the power of the Holy Spirit and victory.


 2016/8/2 14:49Profile

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