To any on SI who may be interested;

Watch this two part series on the Lord's Supper at the following links.


Part 1
https://vimeo.com/5840406

Part 2
https://vimeo.com/5779519

Thanks brother! I definitely will!

This is a short word I found interesting..check it out, maybe there is something in it. If not, forgive me. :)

https://youtu.be/o6rFs4QBPqo

_________________
~ Forrest

Great teaching! Thanks Savannah. While I was listening I remembered of some meetings I had been in in the past, now I know why they were so good. Very clear biblical teaching. This stuff always felt good to me, now I know the reason.
I appreciate the Hebrew background information also. Thanks forrest. That short video shed light to things I didn't know before:
1. why Jesus said I go away and make a house (place) for you
2. What was the waiting for the groom in the parable of the ten virgins all about.
3. Why did Jesus say that he will not drink of the wine till he comes back, and what it meant.
4. What turning the water to wine meant to the Jews.

NTRF has some great articles. They had a book I can't find anymore called, "The Ekklesia". Misplaced my copy. What a great book. Videos were very good.

Thanks, Savannah.

Ahhh, now I remember. The original, "Ekklesia" book was written by Beresford Job. Now, there seems to be a new one called, "Ekklesia: To the Roots of Biblical Church Life", by Steve Atkerson. Does anyone know what happened to Beresford Job? I don't see him on NTRF anymore.

Jon Zens of NTRF: also like his writings. Check out: The Pastor Has No Clothes - Moving from Clergy Centered Church to Christ Centered Ekklesia

I just found Beresford's blog. This will be a gold mine. It seems Beresford has finally been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century having been persuaded to start a Blog.
https://beresfordjob.wordpress.com/

Very informative videos on the supper thanks.

The Quakers, originally started because they held to the doctrine of Christ's return being in this life, the second blessing, entire sanctification and that Christ's supper was to be in anticipation for the marriage supper of the Lamb which is for this life.

Those who had been through the baptism of fire, or as George Fox put it, come up through the flaming sword into the Garden of Eden, returned to the state of Adam before the fall, were now at the Lord's table constantly, eating and drinking with Him, or sharing in His life. This was not to be when one had first come to Christ but at a later date when He comes to reign in them fully.

Many in the church pray the Lord's prayer which as the vids say is an extention of the communion, saying Thy kingdom come thinking that it will only come at the end of this life. Historically they have strongly disapproved of those on the other side of the divide but some do begin to see it and then pray with ernest to be amongst the baptised.

There is no point in a dispute as you cannot open eyes, that is something God must do. You can only give your testimoney.

To be eating and drinking at His table, here and now, and knowing that the marriage supper is for this life, is something beyond words to describe.

But until then, as I did in the past, the communion service will be a blessing to many and hotly defended. I wish God's blessing on all of His people whatever their stance.

Julius I like Jon Zens and have read a lot of his writings too.

While there is a great depth of spiritual truth to be found in the Lord's Supper (or the Table of the Lord), it is something we are to do "in rememberance of me (Jesus, speaking of himself in the Gospel account) UNTIL WE DRINK IT ANEW WITH HIM IN HIS FATHER'S KINGDOM (not yelling, caps for emphasis only). The scriptural context of Revelation 19 where it speaks of "The Wedding Supper of the Lamb" is the Angel telling John that "blessed is the one who is invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb". This is after Babylon, that great prostitute has fallen (in chapter 18), & right in the context of chapter 19-20 where, as I showed clearly in another thread, the false prophet & antichrist are thrown into the lake of fire, Satan is bound and sealed in the pit (still future), Jesus comes and "treads the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty", the angel calls the birds of the air to come feed on the dead flesh of those who opposed Christ and were slain, Satan is once for all thrown into the lake of fire, the great white throne judgement & Day of the Lord, the new heavens and new earth, etc.

So while the Lord's Supper (or communion if you prefer) is to "remember" Jesus and the cross, & look forward to His return, it isn't the wedding supper itself. It's a foretatste of it. It's like an engagement (or betrothal if you will) "rehearsal dinner" before (& in anticipation of) the real thing after he returns and the wedding is consummated. If you study the Jewish engagement & wedding process (which all the original audience was well acquainted with and understood - far different in some ways from our modern western form of engagement & marriage), you'd see that "the Bride price" was agreed upon, & Calvary paid that bride price! The father took the son back to "His house" & is building "insula" (many "rooms" is a better translation than "mansions") onto His father's house at this time. Once the insula is complete & the Father approves and says, "it is complete & it is time", the Father sends the bridegroom into the streets of that city to gather all the "virgins" & wedding guests! The son doesn't even know when that day of hour is exactly (though the son knows when it's close obviously), it is the Father's discretion of when it is time. The Father calls the friend of the groom, the cry goes out, those ready come in, & the door is then SHUT so no thieves or robbers can come in. If the "proper guests" don't come, the Father implores them to bring them in off the highways and byways that the house may be full!

Then the marriage is actually consummated. Then comes the wedding supper celebration. We have pictures and tastes of this marriage & this kingdom, but we don't have its fullness/completion. The Quakers or anyone else got this wrong if they attest that we already have it (just like they got "absolute sinless perfection" in this life wrong & in the same way Preterists take the events of 70 AD & say that the "mini-type" taste of events was EVERYTHING & now it's all done and wrapped up including even the Day of the Lord which happened in 70 AD & apparently only a non-believing Josephus recorded it? As Ravenhill used to say - "That's Balderdash!").

But the fullness & true final fulfillment of these realities only tasted upon now are still to come at the "consummation of all things". They are the events immediately proceeding & upon & after the Day of the Lord! The Day all the prophets & apostles spoke of & looked to, & called us to long for.

And when we start making the tastes/types the actual fulfillment, we do, in a way, what the errant Jews did who clung to Moses (the Mosaic Law being the types/shadows/foretastes of Messainic first coming prophecy) over the Messiah (the actual fulfillment) & many of them missed it.

Matthew 25 says:
31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, THEN (caps my added for emphasis) he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

I am longing for "that day" as did all the prophets and apostles. And that's actually what the Lord's Supper is about in large part too. Eating and drinking of the Messiah & all that means & longing for that day when He returns and (fully, actually) establishes His kingdom over all the earth for eternity.

I'm not trying to be a contrarian here, I promise. But I think these things have profound importance Biblically & we should be "hastening" (which is a poor translation really - "awaiting eagerly" is more correct to the Greek) the Day of His return & having an eternal perspective and looking forward to "the age to come" with great expectation! This life in this age is just a taste even for citizens of the heavenly kingdom. It's not just a matter of "theological knowledge for the sake of it" but I really do think a "preteristic" view on everything being "completed now already" as opposed to a future, Day of the Lord, Consummation of All things, Day of the Lord-Centric view has profound implications on how we live, how we preach/teach, etc. And I think telling the believers who have flown the wreckage of Syria & Iraq, who are getting murdered in the streets of Nigeria, Congo, Sudan, etc. & those imprisoned in Iran, Eritrea, North Korea, etc.,- "well, this is it! This is the kingdom in its fullness! The Kingdom NOW & nothing less!" frankly is a sham! I actually believe it impunes the character of God, brings into question the scriptures as a whole, etc. And every step in that direction that makes things the Lord puts in a future context (like Revelation 17-21, Matthew 25, etc.) to be metaphorically somehow realized now (not in part or anticipatory type, but saying in full, "this is it") is a misinterpretation and misapplication of His Word.

Not trying to pick a fight or just be right either. I think the implications to God, the Gospel, His Word, & His character/faithfulness is massive. And once we start down this road, in my opinion and the experience I have seen, it's just a matter of time or something and it gets more and more explained away into past and or present & the "great hope" of the Day of the Lord, the Wedding Supper of the Lamb, the Consummation of all things, the age to come, etc. gets lessened. And this great hope has held the church strong through the ages in the face of tremendous struggle, peril, persecution, trial, etc. These are things I think at least should be considered.

May the Lord bless you all today as you seek Him through His Word & leads you into all truth humbly by His Spirit!
In Jesus,
Jeff

No Brenda, I am sorry, but I must state emphatically here publically that I believe that to be a false doctrine (overstated & out of context based on some seeds of truth as most false doctrines, heresies & Gnosticism is).

The kingdom of God is (in seed form) within His saints. No doubt. But the eternal kingdom as it will stand forever comes upon His appearing at the Day of the Lord. This is not that. I'm sorry, but it just isn't. WAY TOO MUCH scripture has to be twisted or deleted to prop that up. And only "those in the know" even among those born again "are in on the secret". A VERY Gnostic feel to those things. And the whole "sinless perfection this side of the grave" idea. Really? The apostle Paul knew nothing of this. Nor did John or the other apostles. Nor did the early church. Nor does the church in the Middle East 10/40 window right now laying down their lives and having their heads chopped off, their bodies/homes/churches burned, their wives & daughters ravaged, etc. But YOU & those IN THE KNOW here who have looked at "SO CALLED DEEP TEACHINGS" of these men know and have experienced it, huh? I don't mean this to be hard or harsh or arrogant. Lord knows I do not. But it is a Gnostic overtone that uses a borderline (if not outright) Gnostic hermeneutic ("secret knowledge" not even the blood borne again converted spirit filled aflame disciples who live as martyrs know - but only those who listen to the secret teachers with all the secret knowledge). It explains away passages & full contexts of scripture like most of the OT, the Olivet Discourse & several clear verses in Matthew 19-25, many things in the book of Acts, Revelation 17-21, etc. and eventually the wedding has already been done, the kingdom is already FULLY MANIFESTED, Jesus has already sat on His throne, the still future promises to Israel in Romans 11 & elsewhere are explained Away, we are on a track to sinless perfection before we even receive our ressurected & glorified bodies, etc. This is the breeding ground for Preterism & for
"Whoever is caught Adding to the words of the book of the prophecy..." & "whoever takes away from the words of this book of prophecy...", etc.

Just be careful. I'm sure mudslinging will likely follow this post, but Only share these things out of concern & love for the flock. God is my witness.
In Jesus,
Jeff

Jeff

Just to be clear, you are opposing men and women who say, even without ever hearing the teaching that:

I struggled as a believer and felt l let Christ down, over and over, by the sins that l could not stop. Then He showed me one day that His power was there to enable me to walk in purity if l only believed it. I took that step out in faith, and since then His power has kept me obedient and His kingdom is now within me fully and l praise Him without ceasing.

That's the secret. Christ in me the hope of glory. Those who wish to argue for sin do not know the kingdom and l have great sorrow for them.