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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Striking a Balance and Two Sides of the Same Evil Coin

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 Striking a Balance and Two Sides of the Same Evil Coin

Here is a snippet, but definitely read the entire article in content on radical feminism and the patriarchy movement. Very enlightening.

But here's the deal, when I was writing the Quiverful/Duggar article and examining all the Vision Forum, stuff, it seemed interesting, like a BACK to the PAST- BACKLASH. Where mythic views of the past were supposed to provide answers, to women's [and men's and the over all family's troubled lives]. Are these movements swimming to the other extreme? As a response to the radical feminism, wanting to reclaim the past? To escape lives that have become unbalanced? Does this mean they are necessarily scriptural? No it does not. Being in opposition to radical feminism and it's ungodly ways, does not mean a group has all the answers. In other words, evil can come from two different directions. Here we can see where the focus on the culture wars, is setting a new trap for Christian women.

Christians know radical feminism is wicked. Battling it out with men is a carnal way of life focusing on the feminist "power struggle", but what about total unthinking blind submission to men? It is carnal too. Men biblically are the leaders of the family but this does not render women slaves. Evil is to be stood against lest it be enabled and God's commandments and leading trumps any man's demands or edicts that are wicked. One extreme to the OTHER rendering the woman in this case even more oppressed then before, where repression comes from a different direction, where overweening loyalty to career and self-improvement a la the Oprah generation is transferred into something more insidious.

For years one heard from the feminist movement; "Down with Patriarchy!" even in New Age spirituality and other feminist theology, the "patriarchy" or assumed dominance of society by men was to be dismantled.

By the late 80s, I was immersed into this type of thinking as I entered the Unitarian Universalist church, reading Naomi Goldberg's book "The Changing of the Gods" where "God" was redefined and "goddess worship" spiritually advanced, cries for the patriarchy to be dismantled. I was further indoctrinated via a women's study professor whose frequent subjects for papers involved comparing your personality to your favorite chosen "goddess". Thank God many women are saved out of even those false lies, on this blog, I talked about my own salvation from Satan's lies.

But now the New world order influenced fallen away "Christian" churches are telling women "Up With Patriarchy?" in response?

There is indeed a trend now in the churches called the patriarchy movement. Honestly finding out about this, I have been shocked, it is like the Taliban has come to America, in a pseudo-Christian form. Honestly as I have already discussed the Duggars, Quiverful Movement, Vision Forum, Stay At Home Daughters--where adult women are kept home under the authority of their fathers, are all branches of this rotten Dominionist tree. One thing I am discovering is there are many other groups now promoting these "women submit" solutions too. When I was young and UU, I read "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood, it was a book where the state [working with religion] totally controlled women who were submissive to men--they basically lived like women in extreme Islam live today, but even more controlled, and subjugated by men living basically as slaves, there for their pleasure only and control. While I realized this book advanced many liberal radical feminist answers I did not agree with such as advancing abortion via the lie called "choice" by its extreme scenario, watching this patriarchy stuff, it's like seeing this insane fiction come into reality.

Women in the patriarchy movement are to obey husbands without question, where marriage is to become a dance of tyranny, rather then a husband who loves his wife more then his own body. Women's worth is solely in motherhood, a valuable position of course, but idolized in this movement. Women are even told to avoid personal friendships in some of these circles, and that they are not to talk in the presence of men unless invited to do so.

"Kathryn Joyce, who wrote Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement, explains that women in biblical patriarchy are supposed to ask their husbands about every detail of household management (which is their sole calling), remain silent in church, are discouraged from speaking in the company of men, and are typically considered at fault for marital difficulties, all of which stem from their lack of submission. "

Everything is about gender, and about putting women in their "place" via control and severe positions. I've been told even writing this blog, by some extreme Christian patriarchy types, is a sin against God, because I am female. According to folks like this my only role is to post on knitting and babies, but different people are called to different things. God has a place for mothers and his other Christian daughters too. Whatever happened to this Bible verse?

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

According to the Patriarchy people, Priscilla would have been forced to stay home.

One thing Ive noted writing the other Quiverful/Duggar/Vision Forum article, they are selling a new "lifestyle" to women, very modern marketing, selling a "Vision" [a la Vision Forum?], One Christian blogger describes it thusly:

"I saw pictures of women dressed in beautiful Victorian garb. Of young families with their children and I wanted that. It looked so pretty. So happy."

I too read the blogs with the wonderful gardens displayed, happy children, huge homes, and this emphasis on almost a "Christian" Martha Stewart ethos, where a perfect homelife was promised as long as you "kept sweet", submissive and blindly obeyed husband and pastor or father for life if you remained unmarried remaining a child for life. What does this do for men when women give up everything for them to manage?

What is interesting is this "vision" goes totally against the life of the woman shown in Proverbs 31, she isn't hidden in the house, barred from society like a Saudi Arabian woman squirreled away unable to leave home without a male escort, in this case, her husband is depending on her and trusting in her. She is in the market place selling things, and one would imagine actually "talking" to people. She is "working" and not a sinner in doing so, in providing for her family. Notice even in verse 16 she makes a real estate transaction!

 2016/7/16 22:23

 Men and Women


I had someone write me, saying that I was sinning to be writing this blog due to my being a woman.
I think the patriarchy stuff is getting carried away. It seems according to this person just by being female, one is not to speak of any religious matters. This is not a church. Does this mean I am sinning by witnessing? or talking about God to other people? It is the strangest thing I have ever heard.

I know several other female bloggers have heard this nonsense before, the false preachers would love to silence 50% of their detractors in one fell swoop. Hey if most of the male pastors are busy being apostates or advancing Dominionism, it's the Christian's job to speak out. Am I supposed to go slink silently into the kitchen and press delete to this website? Well I have to go make dinner in there soon.

Not everyone is called to do a blog like this one, I understand that, but I think about what I have written about for two years, and some man who thinks by the reason of my gender, that I should shut down tomorrow. I believe men are to be loving leaders of the household, men as pastors, etc, but the Christian Taliban, seems to want to shut women away the same as the heads of Islam do. Some of these men would love to shut every female in the house and not allow them outside without a male escort.

They would have told Priscilla, to stay home, husband or not.

Act 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto [them], and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

1Cr 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

The patriarchy influences are getting scary out there. Piper who is part of the patriarchy movement, wrote this:

I dealt with a couple one time. They were sitting in front of me, and she said, "He learned from you that I have to get permission from him for everything I do." I said, "Really? Like what?" And she said, "To go to the bathroom! He won't let me leave the room without his permission. If I get up and walk out of the room, he says, 'Hey, you're supposed to ask me first.'"
That's not because the man values complementarianism. That's not complementarianism. That's sick! So we do deny women things that we shouldn't deny them, if we're sick.
Seriously it's kind of scary even that an article like that was necessary......perhaps he should rethink some of what he is teaching, for a man to even get that idea.

Wartburg Watch, wrote about this on their website, I do not agree with them on everything but they are right about the influences of the patriarchy movement.

"Is he aware that some of his buddies have encouraged some distinctly odd and even abusive behaviors, on occasion? Piper says,“And we're going to probably make different judgments about that.” He is discussing Biblical clarity and then says we are going to see things differently? So much for "clarity." There's the rub. Here are “examples” of "clarity" and "differing judgements" that have been reported by those who claim to have attended churches that are pastored by good buddies of Piper.

Women must ask their husband’s permission to attend Bible study.
Women must drop what they are doing and bring coffee to their husbands at work as soon as they are commanded. (A game a few pastors played to “show” the obedience of their wives.”
Women should sit in the back of the church.
Women should not go to college.
Daughters should stay at home with daddy until they are married and should tend to daddy’s needs.
Women should not teach baptized boys."

See my article..."Two Sides of the Same Evil Coin: Radical Feminism Vs. The Patriarchy Movement"

Watching this stuff progress, it seems to be growing worse. Everything seems to be getting crazier out there. I don't know about you, and maybe this is a thought that may get me in a bit of trouble with some of my readers, but I have tired of what I call STEPFORD Christianity, that they seem to be selling to the extreme "right" side of the equation. What if you don't fit the demographics? Even their definition of men and women, puts pictures into my head of perfectly coiffed stepford wives, this time of a Christian flavor, who are automatically excellent housekeepers and perfectly obedient to the "patriarch's" every word.

It does not allow for average people or the messiness of everyday life--I'm not talking about the messiness and turmoil of sin, but the troubles that come to everyone. That said, I don't trust, all that "BE MANLY MEN!" articles that Piper, Driscoll and others all seem enamored with too. It's like they want cookie cutter personalities and everyone to become like caricatures that have been set out. I understand the biblical edicts against being effeminate for men, but when they tell people you all must be THE SAME, it bothers me.

While God does set out some roles for men and women, the emphasis on the war of the sexes gives me a headache. The new world order has used this strife to bring trouble to our lives, the luciferians essentially hate women, and it can come from the left--the feminist-two for one deal world, where women, motherhood and family are degraded but it also can come from the right, where men are told and instructed to be "muscular" tyrants, that need to refuse to let the "little" women boss them around. Why do you think think so many false religions and cults oppress women in this world too where they very personhood is squelched out and its all about control? Men except the cretins at the top of the pyramid do not prosper in these false religious systems either, they become oppressed as well.

Another verse that is forgotten a lot...

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

and what about this one?

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 2016/7/16 22:33

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2077

 Re: Striking a Balance and Two Sides of the Same Evil Coin


No "enlightenment" here as you stated.

Rather, much bitterness here.

Many words, yet very little of the Word of God. The proverb is applicable here, "In the multitude of words, there wanteth not sin."

She's got an axe to grind, and has found a place to grind it. And she will find an awful lot of ears willing to listen. You J are an example of two of those ears, and here you are posting it on this forum.

A blog is quite the place to vent!

 2016/7/17 2:15Profile


Of course, I would expect that from you. That seems to be the most prevalent accusation towards Christian women who step on other's toes by speaking the truth. These men seek to marginalize these women rather that address what they are saying. But, they can't address what they are talking about, because they will look foolish, so then they attack the woman.

Forget the message, attack the messenger.

 2016/7/17 2:39


The ironic thing is that the scriptures could not be more clear on what women are not to do in the NT Ekklesia Sunagogae: teach publicly or have authority over a man. Paul addresses this in several different places & even says (to make sure it's crystal clear):

"If anyone claims to be a prophet or spiritual, let them acknowledge that the words I speak to you are from God, & not man..."

Pretty clear don't you think?

Evangelism (sharing the Gospel) is different. That's not teaching in the assembly & having authority teaching over a man. Woman Prophesying and the right manner of it is addressed in 1 Corinthians (11 I think?). And on and on. For the one who points out Deborah (even though Isaiah speaks of how having women rulers over you was a sign of judgement on a people because there were no male leaders following God), that's an exception when there are no men to do it (or that are willing). Amy Carmichael did her pioneering work, but when the church was established and men capable and able to lead were trained & raised up, she handed it over to them. Wow, what a Biblical concept (that makes my respect for Amy even more so at her boldness, wisdom, humility & obedience to the Word of God!).

There is a problem with absent or weak male leadership in the church in the West. To that I say, let's humbly & meekly, yet boldly without compromise, BE THE SOLUTION! But there's also another issue and that's one of forward & rebellious feminism. If a woman is honoring God and leading cause there is no man there to do it (I met one of those in Israel. An Arab Believer from Nazareth no less named Ronia - a real jewel), then praise God! But if it's just a feminist - Rebellious against the Word - spirit, then jumping on board and heralding such is foolishness & an affront to the Gospel & the Word of God! I fear there's too much of both errors in America, but let us just return to the Word of God and clear instruction laid out in the NT & the issue will be dealt with in truth.
In Christ,

 2016/7/17 10:31

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