"he (Derek Prince) found the Bible to be the most logical book he ever read."

I always thought so too. Maybe because I've read Derek Prince books as a baby christian and he must have pointed it out in one of them.

"I never felt you were whole heartedly endorsing the website"
Well, some took it as if it was recommended as a bible. I brought it up as an illustration only. The spirit of the website I didn't understand till later.

I took it for exactly what you said, Tozsu. We should not use LF's, and we should know how to detect them which will keep us from using them or falling into LF traps. In short, we should not use worldly means for discussing scripture or the things of God.

Many people love to debate in forums for the sake of debating. I read a paper online where one person actually lay out quite well how that Christian forums are demonic. I need to find his paper because it was quite convincing and I could personally understand where he was coming from. Many forums are demonic (if you have perused any besides SI), and sometimes on SI it has gotten quite nasty. Forums do not reflect real life at all. As people in real life, hide their true feelings and just shun you instead. I don't think people would talk to one another in real life as they sometimes do in forums. But, maybe I am wrong. "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh". Mt 12:34

Your opening post said it quite well:

"I am very saddened that these type of logical fallacies abound in the SI forum. (The most easily detectable ones are straw man, and black or white) The result for me is that after reading some of the posts I get feelings of confusion, frustration, being tricked, empty, defiled, depleted, exhausted, angry, oppressed, bullied, beaten up. Logical fallacies are tools of deceit and used here to defend someone's position. We know that the truth does not need unfair ways to be protected..."

I think it is good to warn everyone to be aware that forums can be dangerous places. My understanding is that you are only trying to persuade us not to use worldly means in searching and discussing the scriptures with one another.

"If we use logic as our starting point to discern God's word"

I always said that Gods truth is the starting point.

I think we need to define logic so both of us can understand the same thing by that word.

Logic is a tool, a method, a way of thinking, a tool can not be a starting point.

To illustrate: god's word is a field and we work on this field with a spade that is logic.


When we are in the spirit we still have and operate logic. Logic is not carnal or spiritual, it is neutral. Think of it as it was math.

With math we can design bombs or build bridges. The design activity usually is the strongest during wars. Should we abolish math? Math is not responsible. We are.

I said this before: with bad premises the same logic brings bad result, and with good premises the same logic brings good result

logic is like a mathematical formula that calculates for example the perimeter of a house. If good measurements were inputed into that formula the result is good, if bad measurements are inputed the result is bad.

That's how I understand it.

I find the use of LF's fairly helpful when they are used against me directly. Whether on purpose or inadvertently.
The old saying that Iron sharpens Iron is true.
I was watching a debate between a Christian preacher and an Islamic scholar. The level of mind controlling comments, questions and even facial expressions was fascinating stuff.
In the end the conclusion must be that if someone can be argued into the kingdom of God they can be argued out of it.
Personally, I don't think any amount of knowledge or wisdom will help when going into a situation where you could actually lose your life, it seems to go out of the window at times like that. In my own experience, the two occasions where I was convinced I was about to die, all I can remember is the fear mixed with the excitement of I might be actually standing in front of Jesus in the next couple of minutes. Sometimes, there comes a situation where all your left with is complete trust in him either way.
When the Lord says to stand firm and everything is screaming run, its at those times I am thinking I am either a man of God or completely insane. Then I am fighting the LF's inside my own head.

_________________
Tony

Logic and reasoning are very similar and I believe when one is born-again his/her reasoning capabilities take a sharp turn for the better. Afterall, they now have a love for the truth and are empowered by the Spirit to think clearly and in godly ways. This improved, Spirit-led reasoning spills over into every area of our lives.

The Bible does not use the word logic, but does use "reason" and "reasoning" in a great many places.

I believe the Lord gives us wisdom and discernment for spiritual reasoning and non-spiritual reasoning with everyday tasks.

by Julius21 on 2016/7/15 10:43:38

"I took it for exactly what you said, Tozsu. We should not use LF's, and we should know how to detect them which will keep us from using them or falling into LF traps. In short, we should not use worldly means for discussing scripture or the things of God."

Julius, No.
This thing was born not from love but frustration. I finally get it why these methods are ungodly. I can foresee the paranoia, finger pointing and suffocating atmosphere that this thing can bring on for the very reason that it was not born from love and God was not in it. Not to mention that the person who is doing it the most will not be bothered at all. The fruit is that people will take their eyes off Jesus and start to concentrate on sin, not even theirs but on others' and as a result they loose their freedom. Towards the end of this thread I realized that you can't say to someone with love "you committed a LF". You see the the whole thing lacks a very important element: self sacrificing love. Meaning that when I am frustrated I should seek consolation from God and after God healed my wounds my actions will be concentrated not to escape myself but to love and save others. What I did was to seek consolation from the forum which it can not give. Those who are constantly being healed by God endure much, more than anyone can expect and that makes things move to the right direction.

Some time ago I was under the influence of a controlling person. I looked up on the internet all the tricks how to get free from these people. After reading these worldly advises I always felt empowered, but after a while I realized that the more "free" I feel the less I am capable to love that person. The whole process turned more and more self serving. Had I found biblical advice instead I would have been better off.
Maybe a quick look at that worldly advice will not hurt but wisdom should be drawn from God.
Thanks everyone for the advice, and please forgive my foolishness.
Julius, I hope you understand this.

Zsuzsanna:

I am grateful that God has you so grounded and that you are comfortable sharing and encouraging here on SI. I have been very blessed by your posts and input as well as many of the other sisters here.

Thanks for bringing up this topic as this discussion has truly blessed me. I believe that most of us here have been brought here for a reason. Some discussions have not gone so well in the past and sometimes our passion and zeal for what we believe to be true can come off as unloving, critical, prideful, etc.. But I believe that the majority of us are all still works in progress and that God will complete the work He has begun in us.

Today, I am thankful, truly thankful, I don't post much because of a very hectic schedule and when I read the posts, prayer requests, updates, and topics I do take them to heart and ponder if, when, and what God may have me to say, and then someone says it. Then I realize how truly AWESOME and wonderful God is.

So thank you and the brothers for keeping this thread civil, understanding, and loving. I've said this before I am thankful for SI, I grieve when discussions go south and I know I have stepped on some toes as well but my heart is to never discourage, condemn, or leave anyone without hope.

I appreciate everyone here and I pray that the other sisters feel that this is a safe place to come and share their burdens, thoughts, and heart.

I know I owe a couple of apologies to some brothers here and would like to do that in a personal email.

God Bless You Guys and Gals,
BD

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David Fella

I see exactly what you are saying, Zsuzsanna.

Thank you for explaining it so clearly.