Poster | Thread |
| Re: | | Paul West wrote:
"Ever wonder what caused him to finally collapse with exhaustion and spend the remainder of his life in depression"
He got mixed up with the heresies of Jessie Penn Lewis and she was effectively used by satan to shut him down. Sad story really. |
| 2016/7/19 16:24 | | PaulWest Member
Joined: 2006/6/28 Posts: 3405 Dallas, Texas
| Re: | | That may be, but my interest is fixated rather in what caused his initial breakdown, before JPL came on the scene. Every effective minister of the Lord experiences stress and burn-out at some stage. But they can usually get through it, take an extended sabbatical, a furlough. But life-lasting depression is something else altogether.
Isn't it probable that the burden of the theology he held to (the same brand of advice offered up in this thread, btw) may have been the precipitating factor of his initial collapse and depression? _________________ Paul Frederick West
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| 2016/7/21 14:50 | Profile |
| Re: | | Paul
You can read this from a baptist perspective of Roberts religious background that heavily influenced his later breakdown.
http://faithsaves.net/evan-roberts/
Here is small exerpt
"Concerning one vision, Evan testified: “For the space of four hours I was privileged to speak face to face with Him as a man speaks face to face with a friend,” a privilege Moses alone had among the Old Testament prophets (Exodus 33:11; Numbers 12:8). However, Evan’s visions went beyond even what Moses experienced. The Bible states that nobody has seen God the Father at any time, but only the Son of God has been seen (John 1:18), but Roberts claimed to regularly see “God the Father Almighty . . . and the Holy Spirit,” rather than only “Jesus Christ” as did the prophets of the Bible;[69] his experiences were comparable to those of Teresa of Avila, who likewise claimed she conversed with God the Father rather than Jesus Christ.[70] Indeed, Roberts testified: “I . . . sp[oke] face to face with Him [the Father] as a man speaks face to face with a friend” for “hours” every night “for three or four months,” and then “again retur[ned] to earth.”[71] Unless Evan Roberts was a false prophet and under Satanic delusion, a greater than Moses was here, and so the possibility that “Roberts [was] . . . intending to set” a “notebook” with his writings “beside the writings of the New Testament” as a record of inspired revelations is explicable.[72] At times “a tremor ran through him, and his face and neck were observed to quiver in a remarkable way.”[73] His work in the Welsh holiness revival teemed with “experiences of visions, voices, and ecstasies.”[74] “His bodily agitations were awful to behold. They filled the hearts of children with fear, bewildered and astounded men of mature years, and caused hysterical women to faint.”[75] On at least one occasion he records in his diary: “I was commanded not to read my Bible”[76] for an entire day by a voice.[77] It was not necessary, however, for Roberts to get guidance by searching the Scriptures, for he “adopted the practice of writing down a problem, placing the paper on to an open Bible and leaving the room for the Holy Spirit to write down an answer,”[78] and in this way he could get solutions to his problems." |
| 2016/7/21 15:04 | |
| Re: | | I don't think that his theology had much to do with apart from it making him more likely to have to endure satanic attack, which you would expect if it was the truth.
Other ministers with the same theology like George Fox, Finney, Duncan Campbell, and indeed JPL did not collapse with lifelong depression. I think that Evans displayed a weakness prior to the revival. Will try to remember what l read that made me cone to that conclusion. |
| 2016/7/21 15:20 | | PaulWest Member
Joined: 2006/6/28 Posts: 3405 Dallas, Texas
| Re: | | Thanks for the link Rev. I'll definitely read it.
Brenda, obviously not everyone who embraces error succumbs to its effects, in the same way that not everyone who smokes develops lung cancer. But they can pass the secondhand smoke over to others who can get cancer.
We serve an amazing God who uses people despite their misgivings and errors in judgment and knowledge. A great example is to be found in His usage to awaken revival through Whitefield and later Finney. You really couldn't get more diametrically-opposed theologically between those two guys! Yet both were used mightily and neither collapsed in their respective convictions.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I tend to see their theology typified as branches shooting off a common trunk, which is Christ. One branch may become more flimsy than the other the further it extends out, though both start off thick nearest to the trunk. As a believer walks and advances, it all becomes a matter of weight. Can the theology of one accommodate the weight of life with its trials and hardship as effectively as the other?
For some, yes. But for others, no. Some have gone out from the tree as far as they could and now sense the branch in which they trusted bending beneath their weight.
Rather than telling them to go out further on the same limb and hang on to the leaves, perhaps a change of branch is in order? _________________ Paul Frederick West
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| 2016/7/21 16:08 | Profile | savedtoserve Member
Joined: 2011/4/7 Posts: 255
| Re: | | Just speaking from personal experience here, I can attest to what Paul is saying here,
[QUOTE/]Isn't it probable that the burden of the theology he held to (the same brand of advice offered up in this thread, btw) may have been the precipitating factor of his initial collapse and depression? [/QUOTE]
In my experience, it's very probable, and I wouldn't be so inclined to think so unless it had happened to me. The darkness and heavy burden that that type of teaching and theology can lead to can be very spiritually devastating. I'm not a great one for being able to expound on why or how, all I know that it has the tendency to sound very scriptural, but it's just enough "off" to also have the tendency to eventually ruin your spiritual walk, steal your song, and convince you to give up. I'm so grateful to have since found solid ground in the plain n simple truth of God's word.
Still, Robert Evans has always been one of my spiritual heroes. I learned so, so much from his writings in my early conversion days. |
| 2016/7/21 22:24 | Profile |
| Re: | | savedtoserve said:
"The darkness and heavy burden that that type of teaching and theology can lead to can be very spiritually devastating. I'm not a great one for being able to expound on why or how, all I know that it has the tendency to sound very scriptural, but it's just enough "off" to also have the tendency to eventually ruin your spiritual walk, steal your song, and convince you to give up. I'm so grateful to have since found solid ground in the plain n simple truth of God's word."
Thats a very good point. A little leaven dropped into a proud heart, a little poison inserted into a rebellious spirit and pretty soon you have the mixture that satan uses to deceive, delude, depress vex and oppress. Can happen to anyone unless we truly come before the Lord frequently and allow him beak up the crusted veneer that can come over our hearts. |
| 2016/7/22 9:51 | |
| Re: | | I can attest to the truth that Paul has outlined, in the increasing inability of a false theological system when the rubber hits the road in severe trials, regarding my own foray into Reformed theology. In fact l would have lost my faith, like others l later discovered, had l not stopped listening to what men said the Bible says, and let it speak for itself.
I then discovered that struggling in the flesh leads to a heavy burden on the back and increasing disillusionment but sanctification by faith alone and thereby in an instant, which is what Evans lived and taught, is what gave me my freedom.
However l have heard of many who have had their faith shipwrecked by that teaching, and if course we would expect Satan to be very active in the area which rather proves it's truthfulness rather than the opposite. |
| 2016/7/22 10:04 | | PaulWest Member
Joined: 2006/6/28 Posts: 3405 Dallas, Texas
| Re: | | Totally agree with you about the freedom that comes in an instant when it is understood by faith alone that Christ is your sanctification. Also agree with you about the field day the powers of darkness have in shipwrecking believers' faith in this area.
I have tremendous sympathy for those who love God but have had their faith hijacked by a burdensome system of performance-based sanctification. To see those flimsy limbs bending beneath their weight, as they clutch at leaves, dreading a fall. The yoke was supposed to be easy, the burden light. This doesn't mean that our trials are light, or that we can downplay our hardships -- but that the branch we stand on is strong and our footing is sure no matter how heavy the weight is put upon us. _________________ Paul Frederick West
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| 2016/7/22 10:53 | Profile |
| | 2016/7/22 11:17 | |
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