| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Quote:
by forrests on 2016/7/18 14:09:35
Savannah,
Listening to the sermon now. 35 minutes into it and it is a clear, biblical, sober, and even refreshing word (even if a bit hard or harsh at times). It is so blessed to hear the word of God preached with conviction and unafraid to make things black and white and deal in absolutes. It is so very encouraging to hear the clear will/word of the LORD and in such a way that makes standing on and walking in it very clear and simple (albeit if not "easy" but by the Spirit of Life).
Perhaps I'll weigh in later with my takeaway from the sermon if anyone would be interested.
Blessings.
I've just listened to it. I agree with you forrests.
I am very far from this. Don't know even how to start...
|
|  2016/7/19 1:05 | |
| | Re: | | The reason why young women wear fashionable clothing, is not to 'advertise their wares' but to compete with other women because their self esteem is so low and all they think they have to offer is their 'sexiness'. What is needed is for them to have better self worth.
The idea expressed is unrealistic in the extreme. To live the way proposed is only possible in like minded communities. Otherwise girls brought up that way will be bullied and scorned by the world.
It is also idealistic thinking that Christian men will not be exploiting their daughters and preventing them from finding God's will in their lives which might involve a career or missionary work.
How many men can afford to support adult daughters? Maybe sone in the US but not in other countries. In real life girls must support themselves and even financially support their families as in Africa. It the American dream that is rapidly disappearing as the nation's health goes down the plughole and cancer rates explode.
|
| | 2016/7/19 11:19 | |
| | Re: | | Brenda,
I think the principles the sermon sets are biblical. I did not have these principles so clear because of the lies of this world. If we have these in mind we look at families and roles differently. I think it would be legalism to prescribe exactly how long a dress should be or how much education is not too much etc. and also there could be exemptions. |
| | 2016/7/19 11:56 | | ginnyrose
Member
Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi
| | Re: | | You mentioned Noah, a man whom the scriptures identifies as a preacher of righteousness.
Did you ever wonder about the number of people that went into the ark with him? Only eight: his wife, three sons and their wives. That is all. Ever think about Noah's siblings, or his wifes', or his daughters-in-law siblings? or, their parents...where were they? They had family somewhere....makes me wonder about the dynamics of this family, the pressure they must have endured to persist in face of opposition. Knowing human nature my imagination teaches me that there is a lot more to this family's faithfulness then a casual reading of the WORD tells us. Then, I appreciate in a fresh way their testimony. Powerful lesson, here.
Sandra
_________________
Sandra Miller
|
| | 2016/7/19 12:26 | Profile | ginnyrose
Member
Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi
| | Re: | | QUOTE:
"To live the way proposed is only possible in like minded communities. Otherwise girls brought up that way will be bullied and scorned by the world."
This is true, but only if approval by your peers is important to you.On the other hand if you are more concerned about experiencing the approval by God, what others say will mean nothing. I have witnessed that. Let me share a few examples.
I have a friend, Karen Yoder, who earned a Ph.D. in nursing. She taught at Duke University and other universities, assisted a researcher in her work. She died this spring; she was 68 YO, never having married. But she was a very plain Mennonite woman, in fact if anything, she dressed quite drab, wore a large white head covering but she was esteemed by her peers and those she served. Highly thought of, well respected.
Many years ago we met a very plain Mennonite lady in Jackson, MS who was attending midwifery school. We saw her interact with the girls from the black community, many poor and...They loved her, crowded around her talking animatedly. She had a relationship with them and dress did not interfere.
Twenty-nine years ago I applied to a Crises Pregnancy Center to work as a volunteer. The director was unsure about allowing me to work there because I looked so different but he decided to give me a chance and seeing what happens. What happened was that God empowered me to work with Him - speaking to those things that needed to be said/done. It did not take long for the others to see how my 'differentness' in no way impended my ability to connect with my clients.
I had to deal with this issue on the personal level about looking different - I did not want to stick out like a sore thumb. No way. The Holy Spirit is so faithful...you see when He asks you to do something he will be right beside you enabling you to do his will. This is the key to faithfulness.
My testimony.
Sandra
_________________
Sandra Miller
|
| | 2016/7/19 13:00 | Profile |
| | | 2016/7/19 13:06 | |
| | Re: | | Sandra
That is all very well, but l don't think it is fair to expect certain levels of faith from others. Failing to have the level expected of one can be devastating. If we want to bring our kids up in the discussed manner then we should move into a community doing the same instead of making life even harder for our kids.
Even so, the failure rate of such communities is pretty depressing. It all goes to show that the most important issue for our kids us that we are living in complete and utter submission to Christ so that they have it demonstrated to them and judging from the attitudes l have discerned from those who are espousing this way to run their families, they do not sound like they are in that state so they are expecting a level of commitment to Christ that they do not display. If course their kids will see this. |
| | 2016/7/19 13:36 | | forrests
Member
Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301
| | Re: brenda7 | | Quote:
by brenda7 on 2016/7/19 8:19:43
The reason why young women wear fashionable clothing, is not to 'advertise their wares' but to compete with other women because their self esteem is so low and all they think they have to offer is their 'sexiness'. What is needed is for them to have better self worth.
I'm afraid there are many things wrong with this statement, Brenda. Please allow me to give an overview of what I perceive is faulty with it:
A) Competing with other women (especially ungodly ones) is not what Jesus called us to nor is it indicative of the conduct of one who is walking in the Spirit.
B) Wearing (as you put it) "fashionable clothing"; clothing that reveals the body instead of conceals it; in order to "offer" "sexiness" (even if done in competition with others) is still *exactly* one "advertising their wares" [for the record: I do not recall the preacher calling their bodies "wares" in the sermon, that is your term Brenda].
They are (even if we accept your rationale) "advertising their wares" in mimicry of others doing the same.
C) Your assertion that it is low self esteem that is the cause and that "better self worth" is the solution is very dangerous and "new" thinking (in Christian thought, anyhow).
The word of God does not find our esteem of ourselves to generally be too low, nor does it encourage us to some higher sense of "self worth." I know phrases such as "knowing our identity in Christ" and the like are gaining popularity in "Christian" circles, but I find them to often be not in agreement with the gospel.
It is when we accurately esteem ourselves as (in ourselves) sinful rebels, defiled and dirty, Christ-hating, guilty and deserving of divine wrath - that we can truly believe Christ and (believing on Him) receive the Holy Spirit and live in and through Him, and thus have the experience of peace, joy and victory and not be a slave of sin (i.e: lewdness and worldliness).
So, in short: it is not a too low estimation/valuation of ourselves that causes us to sin, it is a lofty view of ourselves that is the culprit. Scripture bears witness to this truth.
Quote:
The idea expressed is unrealistic in the extreme. To live the way proposed is only possible in like minded communities. Otherwise girls brought up that way will be bullied and scorned by the world.
Respectfully, Brenda, only unbelief would call what God commands in His word and assures He will accomplish in and through us by His Spirit, "unrealistic in the extreme." That is not the voice of Jesus which says such things.
The LORD God says to His people through Moses: "For I am the Lord who brings you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy." (Leviticus 11:45)
Jesus says: "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48)
Peter commands us: "...as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, 'Be holy, for I am holy.'" (1 Peter 1:14-16)
Jesus says: "All things are possible to those that believe." (Mark 9:23)
I could go on, but I think that should suffice. The word of God is always calling us to "unrealistic" and "extreme" living that we cannot do in ourselves. That is precisely why we need Jesus and His Holy Spirit. The word of God is clear that "the just shall live by faith" and reassured His servant(s) with the words "Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit!"
God did not create man to be his own source and supply for what He required of him. He did not create man to be sufficient in himself - man was to be what God intended him to be how God intended him to be it: by faith. Trust God and abide in His word and leave the rest to Him. Lean on Him as your source and strength. Look to Him (and be radiant, Psalm 34:5).
I am saddened to hear you have such little faith in Christ as to write off what God has required of us and Christ has provided for us at Calvary as: "unrealistic and extreme."
In "light" of ourselves they are - but not in light of Christ and the cross. He entered into our experience and died our death that we may die His death with Him and thus live His Life in and through Him by faith!
Quote:
To live the way proposed is only possible in like minded communities. Otherwise girls brought up that way will be bullied and scorned by the world.
Again, this is not true and is apparently ignorant of Christ and His words to us..
Didn't Jesus say we would be hated and mocked and ridiculed for His Name's sake?
Doesn't the apostle Paul tell us we will suffer persecution (if we desire to live godly in Christ Jesus), and that "We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God,"?
Can a person that is not willing to be identified with Christ and endure ridicule and strife for doing so, after He did just that for us, really be said to love Jesus? Didn't He Himself say that if one does not "deny himself" and "take up his cross" and follow Him that they "are not worthy" of Him?
Quote:
It is also idealistic thinking that Christian men will not be exploiting their daughters and preventing them from finding God's will in their lives which might involve a career or missionary work.
I don't understand this, do you care to clarify?
Quote:
How many men can afford to support adult daughters? Maybe sone in the US but not in other countries. In real life girls must support themselves and even financially support their families as in Africa. It the American dream that is rapidly disappearing as the nation's health goes down the plughole and cancer rates explore
I just must say that I disagree with this - especially if we have a heavenly/biblical perspective and are "content" with "food and clothing."
_________________
~ Forrest
|
| | 2016/7/19 14:52 | Profile | MrBillPro
Member
Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas
| | Re: | | Just when I thought about attending the Church at the beach,we're everyone goes swimming after church. I guess I could pick me us a pair of blinders and a depth finder with braille, when I go swimming.
_________________
Bill
|
| | 2016/7/19 16:10 | Profile |
| | Re: | | We were told the principle, and understood it. If the Holy spirit does not condemn us it is our decision. I probably will swim in the summer. |
| | 2016/7/19 16:23 | |
|
