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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : war on the saints

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 Re:

Well said, Greg.

 2016/6/26 1:27
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re:

Quote:
Quote:
by Rev
Penn-Lewis learned from Guyon the alleged truth of Quietism, “an effortless spiritual life” that is “stripped of [even the] vestiges of self”[562] by passing beyond “effort or feeling or even faith”[563] to mystical union with the Divine, “the Christ-life,”[564] where “your own personality as a separate identity [is] merged in Him,”[565] and “God is—we are not.”

John Lennon circa 1968 would have loved her philosophy.

"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."

The mis-information came from the same source.



by Notdarkyet
What irony Rev, a book called the war on the saints was in fact itself a war on the saints.


I was thinking the same thing!!!

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2016/6/26 4:02Profile









 Re:

I'm concerned about what I read and I'm trying to keep my comments very simple and not to cause more confusion.

Greg wrote:, "So the question comes to us, have we met with God or sought God in this way or are we just content with studying the Bible ?"
As true believers we want to meet with God, to slip away and seek Him. Probably most of us here could share testimonies how the Lord became real in their lives etc.
But what does it mean "in this way "? That's where we need to be careful, where we could have long discussions.

When I read the passages that Rev and others have already quoted then I see many red flags.
Quote:"an effortless spiritual life” that is “stripped of [even the] vestiges of self”[562] by passing beyond “effort or feeling or even faith”[563] to mystical union with the Divine,"
There are many things wrong here, to keep it simple I only make one comment: by passing beyond...faith
The Bible says in Hebrews 11, "without faith it is impossible to please God" and we read "By faith Abraham ..."

Quote: "having entered by Spirit baptism into a realm of spiritual experience higher than any promised in the Bible or experienced by men like the Apostle Paul in their lifetime..."
You can't measure a spiritual experience and say which one is higher.!
Paul wasn't boasting about spiritual experience.
He wrote "Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ (Philippians 3v8)
He wanted to gain Christ and not an experience.

"Though I am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to illuminate for everyone the stewardship of this mystery, which for ages past was hidden in God, who created all things.…(Ephesians 3:8)

May the Lord give all of us wisdom and discernment ! Blessings

 2016/6/26 4:26









 Re:

Markus,

I have always found it wise to read these things for myself and let the Lord show me the truth. I recommend that you read her books if they interest you and come to your own conclusions.

 2016/6/26 10:11









 Re:

Dear saints,
When I started this thread I hoped to discuss a book and the thoughts in it. I started this because I have burning questions concerning us today that are rarely discussed. Just like in the early 1900s in Wales we are in the aftermath of a charismatic revival with all kinds of spiritual manifestations, and various new teachings especially about the Holy Spirit. Many are disillusioned and stopped to go to church because they realized that they were deceived, they heard a counterfeit gospel (of greed), and the signs and wonders that were expected wore off. After the spiritual abuse they went through (false prophcies, discipleship movement, etc) they don't want to do with anything spiritual. They threw out the baby with the bathtub. They were kept in a baby state by false teachers and can not differentiate between "good spiritual" and "bad spiritual". And there comes us on sermonindex, beating them up daily by calling them lukewarm and "dumb sheep" (?), and when it's time to show some discernment we can't show any, all I've seen people to do here for "discernment" is run to the internet and dig up dirt (real or not real) on the person, website etc. to show that they had an "agenda". I don't think this is what God had in mind for us as "discernment" (l think markuskiwi did well by watching for red flags, the only problem is that he did not look at the book itself not even at the book about the book, but at a book about other books). The idea of the book is that as we receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit we enter into the spirit realm, where we are inexperienced, but God will lead us. Our map in this new territory is the bible. Satan has a counterfeit for everything, but through the Holy Spirit we are capable to discern. It shows that even good sincere christians can be deceived. Only through deception can satan cause damage to us. (No christian in their right mind would do anything for the devil otherwise).
So some of those burning questions:
Why do we discuss deception but rarely, when so many warnings are in the bible against it?
What are the devices of satan against us?
Can an honest christian be deceived?
What do we have as a basis of our discernment?
What is the gift of discernment of spirits and why is it given to the church?
What is the baptism in the Holy Spirit? What is boldness.
Should we receive everything spiritual as coming from God?
Sould we reject all spiritual things because they can be counterfeited.
Can we grasp God through personal holiness or mysticism?
Are we ready to admit that we were deceived? (If we were)
Are we open to the truth and teachable?
etc.
This book makes us ask these questions, but nobody pays attention. They jump on the juicy topic of her relationship to him, or whether she likes Madame Gouyon or not.
We are all personally followers of Christ. When I recommend a book I do not want the reader to receive it without criticism and become the follower of the author. On the contrary: I would like the book to be READ and CRITICISED. Is it not our job to prove everything and keep what's good?
I understand that someone might be afraid to read a book that could potentially destroy his faith. But a mature Christian should have the strength, biblical basics, guidance of the Holy Spirit, common sense, discernment, curiosity, inspiration, prayerfulness, vigilance, experience to be open minded and at least start to read a book until his red flags (if any) abound.

 2016/6/26 11:48









 Re:

Tozsu,

Please continue. There are plenty of people who have read JPL's works that can fellowship with you over them. Remember, her material exposes the powers of darkness.

Please ignore those that rely on others for their discernment and continue.

I would not even read their posts since they always rely on others and do not speak charitably.

 2016/6/26 13:57
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re:

Quote:

I understand that someone might be afraid to read a book that could potentially destroy his faith. But a mature Christian should have the strength, biblical basics, guidance of the Holy Spirit, common sense, discernment, curiosity, inspiration, prayerfulness, vigilance, experience to be open minded and at least start to read a book until his red flags (if any) abound.


I'm not afraid to read this book, I have been reading through it and googling things on it. What I have found is is people who focus more on deception and counterfeit of the Holy Spirit and my search is by no means exhaustive.

My take is that this constant bombardment of deception and counterfeit births in men and women a fear of moving in the spiritual realm. And people who are looking for a reason to not go further (and wanting to stop other people) have found it!

I could be wrong and I'll read more but so far this is my take on it,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2016/6/26 14:13Profile









 Re:

We must take into consideration the purpose for which the book was written.

It was to warn people about the great deceptions that were coming into the church at a critical point of time and unfortunately, it did not stem the tide, although it did help many people.

JPL and ER were neither of them cessationists and believed in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the continuation of gifts. However, certain gifts and even the Baptism were being counterfeited and were not those to be found in scripture.

Those who receive the true baptism also receive discernment but unfortunately, today many people are not aware of there being a true baptism and a counterfeit. They accept everything from the spiritual realm as being from God.

There is no need for fear but a great need for understanding that there us a false baptism and it is not found in cessationist circles.

 2016/6/26 14:55
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: war on the saints


I have MORE time to listen to the book and I found the audio on sermonaudio(dot)com, under Evan Roberts Sermons

<edited the following>
WHICH makes me wonder because although you say they believe in the gifts and yet this site is known for not being inclusive in all the gifts and women. Which is why the book is listed under Evan Roberts and not Jesse Penn Lewis.

I've downloaded them and I'll do my best to listen to them.


_________________
Lisa

 2016/6/26 14:57Profile









 Re:

By all means read more, Lysa and would like to hear your comments, then.

 2016/6/26 17:16





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