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Discussion Forum : General Topics : HYPER GRACE Documentary: Now Available Online & YouTube

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 Re:

I am certainly no expert on Joseph Prince. And I'm sure there are abuses in the hyper-grace movement. But then there are certainly abuse in the hyper law movement. Or I should say in the law movement.

But I did watch the video. I have to agree with Yuehan in that it appears his exposition of Romans 7 is based on scripture. I could actually find no fault with the exposition. Is it not true according to Romans 7 that we are dead to the law but married to Christ so that we can bear fruit. This seemed to be the gist of his message. Now granted this is a shorter message I'll have to listen to the whole thing.

But to be fair I am going to watch the posted documentaries that are done on hyper-grace.

Just my thoughts.

 2016/6/4 16:25
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

In the "Hyper Grace" documentary, there's a snippet of Joseph Prince at 35:30, where he shares on Romans 6:14 (theologically similar to the Youtube video I had shared earlier).

That's followed by a clip of David Ravenhill, and I transcribe his remarks:

"As far as Joseph Prince as a person, I don't think his intention is to get people to sin. I think the fruit of his teaching leads to that - leads to a loose lifestyle, leads to carnality, and so on and so forth. I think that is the fruit. I don't think he's teaching, you know - "Go out and sin, do whatever you want" - that sort of thing. But I think the doctrine ultimately leads to that."

I appreciate the emphasis on fruit here. So what has been the fruit of Joseph Prince's ministry?

His website is filled with testimonies of people being set free from pornography ( http://bit.ly/25GtirV ), depression ( http://bit.ly/1LFz7ce ), drugs ( http://bit.ly/25GtWpg ), adulterous affairs ( http://bit.ly/1r7oVD2 ) ... his ministry is marked not by carnality, but by transformed lives.

If God is pleased to work through his ministry, surely he must be doing something right. So how about we just acknowledge the fruit?


 2016/6/4 16:32Profile









 Re:

Going to take a while to work through this documentary. It is 3 hours long. Listened to 15 minutes of it. Liked Eric Ludy's exposition of grace. Look forward to listening to more of it.

 2016/6/4 16:41









 Re: Yuehan

Brother since we can't PM on the forum anymore. Can you send me an email at [email protected] I would like to dialogue with you on both of these videos here. But do not want to take away from the thread here. I don't want to invite unnecessary debate from others.

Love to converse with you bro. Shoot me an e-mail please.

Brother Blaine

 2016/6/4 16:46
joliboy11
Member



Joined: 2011/9/16
Posts: 208
Philippines

 Re:

They may have good motives but the fruit of their messages does not lead to that. To be a Christian is to be guided with the whole word of God(with pure motives of course) not just parts of it.

They think that as if they recover a formula to make God more appealing to people and thinking they may help them. And claiming that this is the sole counsel of God and not allowing other saints to balance their views.

If I am defining them right, I will bluntly say that I strongly disagree with them.

I think it is D.L. Moody who said: "If conviction of sin is not the first thing the Holy Spirit done in you, anything you claim of the Holy Spirit is not of the Holy Spirit as far as Salvation is concerened."

There is a reason why the severity of the law must come first.
Today as L. Ravenhill have said:
"We're trtying to save people who are not even convince that they are lost."
I recommend bro. David Servant's book "The Great Gospel Deception" for a concise exposition on this..

Yes evern Paul was accussed of antinomanism,if you just focus on some if his writings. But a true Christian knows that less than what he said won't save us. Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me!

 2016/6/4 21:06Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 38122
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
To me, Joseph Prince's exposition of law and grace is aligned with the reformed tradition. His views are shared by the likes of Watchman Nee, A.B. Simpson, going all the way back to the Protestant reformers and most of all the Apostle Paul.



brother,

I have to fully disagree, men like Watchman Nee, A.B. Simpson and others on SermonIndex.net really have nothing at all in common almost with Joseph Prince. There is a very slick arguing he does in every message, trying to convince people of his views and taking apart arguments people have against him. When I watch his teachings I really think he is deceiving people that really do not read their Bibles, and who do not want to be under the conviction of sin in their life or to truly fear the Lord.


Fear Of God Has Been Lost In The Church (Compilation)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJVbFC9ODZI

A Reverential Fear Of God by Zac Poonen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW7KDfVWpTU


There are testimonies on any website of people who embrace a certain false teaching such as prosperity teachers etc. I would really be hones to caution against Joseph Prince and do not see in him a true ministry of the Gospel.

This video is quite graphic but shows the error of his teaching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlKLDBxyS0

Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/6/4 23:01Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

yuehan, thank you for your stand for Joseph. Your quote of David Ravenhill is so full of "I", no wonder he cannot see the Grace in Joseph Prince.

I listen to Joseph often and always checking him with the Word of God and every once in a while a small amount of humanness from him, but I have not found yet any large or even small deviation from what Pauls' gospel speaks to, The Grace of God Himself born again in the believer, by my birth of Christ in me the Hope of Glory, I am a son and fellow heir to the Kingdom of God in Christ Jesus. "Grace by Faith"

Ephesians 2:4-10 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Amen and Amen

Keep praying for Pastor Prince and always using the Word of God to keep him on truth in preaching the truth.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2016/6/5 6:35Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2106


 Re:

Wow Greg I only watched five minutes and to hear prince twist the scriptures in such a blatant way regarding the passages that talk about the wide an narrow gate ,,,Iv never in my life herd any one twist so badly those verse,, and also,regarding the once saved always saved doctrine,..


Those defending prince ,just listen to the false teaching spew out of his mouth ,in the Link Greg provided ..

Can I get some thoughts on that link ,does any one here actually believe what prince says in the first five minutes of that link.???

 2016/6/5 7:30Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1624
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Yes this is a good exposé,... Like D. Ravenhill stated in the initial video, it doesn't appear that J. Prince is deliberately misleading people tho undoubtably does.
Many times when we embrace a doctrine we build on it and cling to it, rather than embracing, building and clinging to Christ. As such we are inevitably led into deception or disobedience which are the two "ditches" either side of the narrow way and as P. Washer stated it becomes evident in our lives by how we live,...and tho we may be blinded to it, others are not and can see clearly we have strayed from the way.

I do love pastor Prince and I ask this not because his soul is more valuable than another but because of his vast influence and his seeming sincerity, so may I suggest we (collectively as the body) pray that the Lord would open his eyes to see the truth and grant him repentance in any and all ways he might be deceived?
Considering how invested pastor Prince is in his doctrine it would seem unlikely another brother could sway him, tho the Lord is mighty to save and I believe wants to see pastor Prince and the multitudes who are influenced by his ministry to come to the knowledge of the truth, believe and repent and walk upright before the Lord.

What a wonderful thought that is:)

The Lord has a way of unsettling His children, of withholding His peace so as to draw us unto Himself to seek out why, where then He may begin to expose our deception and correct our understanding (doctrine).

There is also a danger in exposing other brothers in that when we undertake this it must be in the intent to restore them and not simply call them out for the sake of exposing the error, lest we also be found to have an evil heart.

So might we agree to pray for him?
Remembering not to pray anything we wouldn't want prayed for ourselves-



_________________
Fletcher

 2016/6/5 8:52Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2106


 Re:

Jfw .

I hear you ,but at the same time the bible is verry negative when it comes to false teachers ,and from what i seen in clips ,this is not the only false teaching from prince.

To my knowlage there is not one verse that acualy says we should pray for false teachers, correct me if I'm wrong, nor one example of it.

So to say if we dont we have an evil heart is not bibical realy is it ?

 2016/6/5 9:06Profile





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