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Discussion Forum : General Topics : It is Christ crucified and not the law, that convicts the hearts of men.

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 Re: Julius

That is one interpretation. However the Orthodox Jews are so disturbed by the vibid depiction of Jesus on the cross as portrayed in that selection of scripture, some will not read read it in their Torah selection.

Bro Blaine

 2016/6/3 13:50
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: ///Brother I don't know if every single preacher on SI is in agreement with the preaching of the law for conversion. I think some believe to preach the cross is sufficient to see sinners come to salvation in Jesus.///

You are sorta misconstruing what I wrote by your response.

This is what I wrote :

The Law/law indirectly/directly is instrumental in all conversions.

What is sin ? "..sin is the transgression of the law."

"..where no law is, there is no transgression."

If a man does not believe himself a sinner than he does not see himself in need of a Savior.

How does man know himself a sinner, because he has transgressed the the standard both within himself and also Gods standard that is revealed in the Law.

As far as I am aware every single Preacher on SI that I am aware of is in agreement with me on this.



I have already provided clear quotes in the other thread from David Wilkerson, A W Tozer , CH Spurgeon, Watchman Nee, Martyn Lloyed Jones , Jonathan Edwards , George Whitefield , John Wesley, DL Moody, AW Pink etc.






 2016/6/3 14:05Profile









 Re:

Amen Bro Frank,

It is significant that the day that the Jews were (and still do) celebrating Shavuot...the Holy Spirit was poured out (Acts 2). Shavuot means "weeks" referring to the seven weeks between the Exodus from Egypt and the giving of the Law.

This is why the LORD waited those seven weeks after the Passover Lamb was slain and risen from the dead. When all the Jews were in Jerusalem to celebrate the giving of the Torah, that is when the Holy Spirit was poured out or placed in the hearts of his people. We refer to it as Pentecost because it was the 50th day after Jesus rose from the dead.

I was made aware of the significance of God's timing in this event
When learning of our Jewish roots.

I hope this helps to enlighten God's transference of the
Law from mind to heart by the gift of the Holy Spirit available only to those who believe that Jesus Christ was and is the Sacrifice Lamb who died for our sins, once and for all.

Holy Holy Holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come. (Rev. 4) Our God is an Awesome God!!!

Respectfully,
Sis L

 2016/6/3 14:07









 Re:

Quote:
by appolus on 2016/6/3 13:21:20

Oh, how we would long to see a generation of today being " stabbed in the heart." Why do we not see it to any great degree? Is it perhaps that we do not have the same boldness as the Apostles and the early church to say unto an angry crowd " You crucified the Christ!"



No, I tend to think it has more to do with the Church's witness/conduct than with boldness. I lead more towards what Brenda is alluding to. The Church that the world sees is one in which they see little difference with themselves. There is a lot of mixture (leaven). No holiness, no love, and just as many divorces and lawsuits and even in many cases, political war mongers. They see a love for the world and sin, in the church. They do not see any power over sin.

Like the bumper sticker says, "I'm not perfect, just forgiven". That has to be the worst message ever put on a bumper for the world to see.

Too many in the Church take the view that one cannot be free from sin, just forgiven. Just like the motto: "Christians aren't perfect just forgiven." The acceptance of imperfection and unrighteousness seems to be the norm for the church. What this motto really says to the world is, "I am a sinner just like you, but I'm forgiven and you are not." The emphasis is put on forgiveness instead of righteousness. Many have the attitude of a Christian minister who was in an adulterous relationship; when confronted he responded, "Every night before I go to sleep, I just ask the Lord to forgive me."

Is there more than forgiveness? Is there freedom from sin? Many respond to these questions by talking about the sin nature in the believer, saying one can never be free from sin because sin will always be in him until he dies. They say the righteousness of Christ in no way changes the carnal flesh, neither does the carnal flesh affect the divine nature. Here man finds himself in a schizophrenic dualism of confusion and failure. The emphasis is upon "saved IN sin" rather than "saved FROM sin". One finds himself living in a two story house with no connecting stairway. On one floor there can be no sin, while on the other floor there is nothing but sin.

In seeking a Biblical position let us consider the following; First, there IS actual cleansing from sin. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to CLEANSE US from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS" (1 John 1:9). So, here is the step BEYOND FORGIVENESS; there IS CLEANSING from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. The blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin (v 7). When one is cleansed, he is SET FREE. The cleansing comes through a process of repentance, as "we walk in the light as He is in the light" (vs 7).

Second, there is release from the corrupt man, "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead IS FREED FROM SIN." Rom 6:6-7. Just as Jesus Christ died for the sin of the world, so sin must die in me. Are you committed to total freedom from sin? You ask, "Do I believe I can reach a point where I CANNOT sin?" No, but I believe one can reach a point where they ARE FREE NOT TO SIN.

Third, there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit that empowers the man. "He saved us...by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5). The baptism of the Holy Spirit is an infusion of God's love, and invasion of God's Spirit, a penetration of truth and righteousness, and an emancipation from sin. Only the Holy Spirit can reach the depth of man's being and bring radical change. God promised this as part of the New Covenant.

God promised those in the New Covenant: Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Ezekiel 36:25-27

Christ came to make men righteous. This is more than a legal reckoning of faith; rather, righteousness is to be experienced as a work of the Holy Spirit in one's life. This is radical and immediate. The Holy Spirit will come as a fire to purge from all defilement, as a knife to circumcise the heart, and as a scribe to write God's laws on your heart. "Christ in you, the hope of glory", is the Holy Spirit in you bringing forth His righteousness (Colossians 1:27).

 2016/6/3 15:15









 Re:

I appreciate the comments so far but would just say to some who would want to rehash old quotes from " other preachers," can you say, without referencing anyone else, that what Christ did on the cross was all sufficient and that the call from then on was to go out and preach the law, sorry, I meant the Gospel to all the world? (me being facetious)

Now in our minds we can maybe try and be clever and break things down and try to figure out how something actually works but the simple fact remains that the Disciples preached Christ and Christ alone and Him crucified. If we stick to what the Scriptures have taught us we discover that while on the cross Jesus proclaimed that " It is finished." The work was done, everything was now fulfilled and complete in Christ and His resurrection three days later would testify to that. Death could in fact not keep him down, the curse of the law was death and Christ overcame death and hell and the grave. This is our testimony and this is what we have been called to share with everyone. The rest of the work is the Holy Spirit.

By the way, there can be no greater accusation against any man or woman, that they are responsible for the death of the Holy Son of the everlasting God. So if you want someone convicted, if you want their hearts ploughed up, if you want to see them stabbed in the heart, preach like Peter did with the same power that He had. This is going to be way more effective than to go through the 10 commandments and tell people what they already know about themselves whether the acknowledge it out loud or not. Guilty of the murder of the Son of God! Now if that does not make a man tremble then recounting lesser sins to them will be meaningless................bro Frank

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
(1Co 2:1-4)

Spurgeon, from his sermon "Preaching Christ Crucified"....

In the verse preceding our text, Paul writes, “Jews demand miraculous signs.” They said, “Moses performed miracles; let us see miracles performed, and then we will believe,” forgetting that all the miracles that Moses did were completely eclipsed by those which Jesus did while he was on the earth as the God-man. Then there were certain Judaizing teachers who, in order to win the Jews, preached circumcision, exalted the Passover, and endeavored to prove that Judaism might still exist side by side with Christianity, and that the old rites might still be practiced by the followers of Christ. So Paul, who was “all things to all men so that by all possible means he might save some,” put his foot down, and said, in effect, “Whatever others may do, we preach Christ crucified; we dare not, we cannot, and we will not alter the great subject matter of our preaching, Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

 2016/6/3 15:27









 Re:

Amen, good post Julius.

 2016/6/3 15:29
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

///...if like Elizabeth Elliot and her husband encountering a tribe that knows nothing of sin, obviously you have to communicate to them that they need a Savior by showing them that without Christ they are lost? And why are they lost? Because of sin and you have to show them why they are sinners.///

Exactly.


If you have an antidote for people whom have been biten by a venomous snake , It is only good to those whom will take it.
You would have a difficult time giving an antidote to someone whom did not recognize that they have indeed been biten by a venomouse snake.

And If you did persuade them somehow to take the antidote without there understanding that they have been biten by a venomouse snake , they would not have any appreciation for the antidote and would have no reason to believe that the antidote saved them.

If someone is already well aware that they have been biten by a venomouse snake and are already seeking and open to the antidote, than it would be unnecessary to point out there condition them.

Edit add : Pointing out ones condition and symptoms has nothing to do with the antidote, except for leading them to the antidote.






 2016/6/3 15:45Profile









 Re: Frank

Brother indeed it is sufficient to preach Christ and Christ Alone. For we see from Paul in 1st Corinthians 15:3-4,

... for I delivered to you as the first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures...

This is further evidenced in 1 Corithians 1:17

....... For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void...

Paul goes on further to state in 1 Cor.1:18,

... For the word of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God...

I think the last part of that verse should be pondered. For the cross is the power of God for those who are being saved. It is sufficient to preach the cross as it has the power to draw sinners to the Lord Jesus Christ and save them. Namely because the power comes from Him who died on the cross. Again in 1 Cor.1:22-24,

... For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to the Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are being called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God...

From the above verses we can see that the heart of Paul's preaching was Christ on the cross. Paul preached Christ crucified for he saw that it was his sins that put Jesus on the cross. Paul reflects this thiught in 1st Timothy 1:15-16,

... Tt is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am for most of all. Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate his perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in him for eternal life...

Paul made his boast in the cross in Galatians 6-14,

... But may it be that I would never boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world...

So indeed, the heart of Paul's preaching and life was the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just my thoughts as gleamed from scripture.








 2016/6/3 15:55
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

A verse worth considering on the purpose of the law:

"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." (Galatians 3:24-25)

How is the law a tutor to Christ? Note that the verse applies to both Jews and Gentiles alike, given the audience in Galatia.

 2016/6/3 16:38Profile









 Re:

Just posting my own testimony here in short.

By age 24 I knew the Law and that I couldn't keep it.
Was always walking in condemnation. Was raised in Mormonism which tries to keep the 10 commandments. ( along with other stuff as you all know).

Knowing I would never measure up, having broken all commandments (no one had to tell me this) I decided to committ suicide).

My brother Vince had heard and then read in the Bible that Jesus Christ died so that we could be forgiven of sins and have peace with God.
I knew that Vince had changed from an angry, confused and moody young man to someone who exuded peace.

So the day that I was going to put my head in the gas oven and end it all, I called out to the brass heavens and cried out for God to make himself real to me. Immediately my mind went to a scripture a man had once spoken to me several years earlier. It was John 15:1. "I am the true vine.." That is all I could remember, so I found my unread and unused Bible packed in a box to look up the reference.
What my eyes landed on was John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled, ye believe in God, believe also in me."

At that moment, I believed in Jesus and a peace flooded my soul as I had never known. I kept reading and his Truth was opened up to me as I read in the book of John. I was born again that day in February 1975 in the middle of Salt Lake City.

I'm writing this because I was not immediately convinced of my own sinfulness until a year later when I went to a small Baptist church in Logan, Utah where the pastor was preaching that our (MY) sins had nailed Jesus to the cross. That is when I was pierced to the heart and it was a pain and sorrow as I had never known and I think that I wept for two or three meetings until I wanted to be baptized in water and receive the Holy Spirit. Then came the great joy and assurance that I was forgiven of my sins and was a new creation and I have never turned back.

As I look back I see that for a while I was on rocky ground. I was not willing to humble myself and go to a "fundamental" Baptist church that I looked down upon. When I took the steps to meet some other Christians and hear the word of God preached, then God took hold of me and established me in his truth.

I don't ever try to analyze or give my testimony theological terms. It was what happened to me. I know what God did and I am forever grateful.

I'm a simple woman and pretty much can't convince anyone of anything but I can always share how Jesus saved me from death.
Love in Christ,
Sister Leslie

 2016/6/3 16:43





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