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Just For the record, I don't abuse my wife (I try to love & to serve her), I don't "lord it over" anyone, & I've never burned anyone at the stake, nor do I plan to (but those who did actually get burned at the stake were done so because they believed & lived according to the Word of God & not the traditions of men - FYI). But the scriptures I quoted are still the Word of God. And they seem to pretty much say what they say. Why is it that if you state & believe just merely what the Word says on a matter, it seems that everyone jumps out of the box with "well, oh yeah, there was someone once who didn't have the Holy Spirit who took that scripture to a wrong understanding & extreme in a Phariseeiacal spirit & did something you're totally not advocating, but I'd better warn against here"?? Lol!
Those scriptures (the ones I stated in the last thread this was jumped off from Christ in the Gospels & the doctrinal epistle ones I just stated in this thread) are all still true & still mean what they say. Ultimately, it is a man's job to lead his family spiritually under the headship of Christ, it is the woman's job to submit to that leadership as unto the Lord, a man must love His wife, everyone must love Christ first above all other affections, it's a man's job to teach the other people in the congregational fellowships not a woman's, but the older women are to teach the younger women & somevery predominant things they are to teach are listed in Titus 2, it's the children's job to obey & respect their parents, etc. Even though there are extremes or where someone used these passages wrongly for abuse, that doesn't negate the plain stated truth of God's order in the home in scripture repeatedly. Any attempt to change the order/structure of God's ordained structure of authority in the home is to supplant & explain away through human reasoning the order God Himself set up in the home.
You might can take that out of context & think I'm saying something I'm not, but the Word of God is still true & His ways are still right. Adam should have been leading & not following his wife's lead (at Satan's delight in questioning God's Word) & notice God didn't go to Eve, but straight to Adam. Ahab got away from the Lord's instructions and let his wife & her idolatrous Canaanite practices lead Israel & look how that turned out. And there is ample instruction for God's "order" of authority under Christ in the NT for good reason. The fact that we all know a man that was heavy handed or took something to some wrong extreme doesn't nullify the Word of God & overturn the plain spoken commands of scripture.
And so I return to Sarah & Abraham & the NT commentary on that & say that the Lord may speak clearly to a husband & a wife. But if He doesn't & He speaks clearly to a husband who speaks to His wife, then while the strings of roots of modern feminism don't like it, the fact is, the Husband is to lead & the wife is to submit, trust the Lord, & not fear. It's really quite simple, though not always easy. On the flip side, the husband is to "live with his wife in an understanding way, considering that she is the weaker vessel" & to love and serve her. But that doesn't mean catering to her fears ultimately over the Lord's call & His Gospel, but gently showing her that His ways and call are always right & that His order is that the Husband "is the head of the wife as Christ is the church." Of a wife feels differently, it could be just fear (which a husband should help her see & abandon/overrule with faith/love), or feminism/control (which a husband & the church should be teaching on and addressing honestly from the scriptures) or just rebellion. Or any combination. A Husband should be in prayer, willing to teach her, gentle & patient, etc. but ultimately, God has still placed leadership in the home in the man's lap. No one can change that & it not be a problem before God.
| 2016/5/28 17:41|
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And I'm not frantically scouring the scriptures for an answer either. These are lost teachings in the church for the most part today in America sadly. My wife would be the first to tell you that feminism & control had deep roots in her heart & she didn't even know it & it affected her greatly, our marriage, etc. My impatience with her back in those days affected our relationship too. We were both accountable for not doing our part rightly under God. God used my part to break me & make me a gentler husband & more loving one towards her. God used her part to show her she was an inwardly rebellious false convert & bring her to himself truly once & for all through the new birth! We will be married for 18 years in 2 days & there are a lot of scars, a lot of clear markers of God's grace, & a lot of hard learned lessons along the way. But the fact that God calls me to lead is SOBERING & HUMBLING (makes me tremble at the seriousness of it) & the fact that God calls her to submit to my leadership under Christ makes her trust Him more (especially as imperfect as I am! 😊). This isn't looking for a scripture to justify myself like some Pharisee. This is just NT doctrine the church understood clearly for over 1950+ years.
| 2016/5/28 17:51|
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Brother forgive me but you seem to see things as black and white.
I have no problems with the thought that a man is to be the leader in the home. But everyone is liable to make mistakes and they frequently do on the mission field and end up back home again within two years l believe.
Disobedience is one thing, but why on earth would God not let the woman in on such a huge thing as leaving everything, family and friends to go to another country? If both are in agreement then there is a safeguard.
Why would a husband's position as leader be compromised if his wife is called personally as well? She will need a very strong sense of God's will for her when the trials come.
Looks like the subject is hitting a raw nerve for you so l am backing out of the discussion.
| 2016/5/28 17:58|
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Not hitting a raw nerve at all.
I'm only being black and white about what the scriptures are black and white on.
"Leaving Friends & Family" frankly kinda speaks to what Jesus is talking about in the 3 synoptic Gospels & the epistles are saying (&'what I said). Human reasoning and other "examples where people missed it" don't change God's Word. I'm sorry, they just don't.
God bless you sister,
| 2016/5/28 18:04|
| Re: nerves|
Thank you for providing the Scriptural support.
To say more will only lead to mere human reasoning rather than being led by the spirit. Jesus said, my words are spirit and my words are life.
I know a man who once approached his brother about his daughters provocative dress and conduct. And the brother accused him of lusting after his daughter.
My question has been answered...and then some!
| 2016/5/29 6:01||Profile|
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Sorry, but I'm not following the connection between the OP topic/subject & your last post life experience? But I just started drinking my morning coffee, so it certainly could just be me. 😊
Anyways, God Bless!
| 2016/5/29 9:52|
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"God chose me because I am weak enough....He trains somebody to be quiet enough, & little enough, & then He uses Him."
Hudson Taylor, who suffered from depression & poor health, lost his wife & four of his children, yet sowed the seeds of hundreds of churches throughout China in His weakness & founded the "China Inland Mission".
| 2016/5/30 10:02|
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"Sorry, but I'm not following the connection between the OP topic/subject & your last post life experience? "
Savannah, why speak in riddles? If you have something to say just speak the truth in love towards others or say nothing at all. Cryptic riddles leave others wondering what you really meant to say about another persons heart but did not have the courage to say it. If you cannot say something plainly then it should not be said at all.
| 2016/5/30 10:43|
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"I'm only being black and white about what the scriptures are black and white on. "
Brother Jeff, I think you misunderstood Brenda. The scriptures are not black and white about what a man should do if he feels called to the mission field and his wife and family do not. He must be led by the Spirit in these matters and not led by the letter. To judge each situation merely on the basis of scripture is being "black and white" and suspends the need for the Holy Spirit to be in our lives at all. This is the same trap that some of the reformers fell into such as John Calvin. Which led him to seeing things very black and white and you know where that ended up:-(
| 2016/5/30 10:53|