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 Re:

Amen to everything you said, Mak. That is my understanding, too.

When Paul was speaking of being "sealed" with the Holy Spirit it is almost like he had the seal of hot wax in mind that they used to seal letters back in that day.

Unfortunately, many unseal themselves from Christ by not remaining in Him.

 2016/5/19 13:32
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 692
Texas

 Re:

I did not write this - I was referring to a post by Yuehan - where he posted an article by Dustin Horstmann.

I think that Dustin is referring to Heb 10:10

(ASV) By which will we have


Thank you for the clarity. Yes, Christ death has "justified" everyone who has ever sinned and this freely. In one atonement, one offering for sin, the sins of the entire world has been atoned. Christ Jesus tasted death for every man. He died for everyone who has ever been ungodly.

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God AND ARE JUSTIFIED FREELY! Who is justified freely - ALL!

And this - BY ONE SACRIFICE! Amen.

I realize that it is not clear that this is what I believe is meant by - for by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being sanctified."

His sacrifice was clearly for the entire world, for the sins of the whole world, for all the ungodly. God takes no pleasure in the death of anyone and He never has. He provided perfect atonement for all. ALL HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED freely. The question then, if ALL have been justified, why are so few saved?


Mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/19 13:35Profile









 Re:

I just wanted to say that this has been a good discussion and I appreciate that. Sree asked for practical ways we would know that we are abiding in the vine.

For me peronally, I know the presence of God and His Spirit speaking to me. I know that when I am abiding or to put it another way, walking in the Spirit, that my interactions with other believers and those of the world is different. In my flesh I would be argumentative and have a great desire to prove myself correct, in the Spirit it does not matter.

In my flesh I would easily take offense, walking in the Spirit I do not. In my flesh I have no particular desire to share the Gospel, in the Spirit I have a great desire to share with anyone who will listen about Jesus. In my flesh I am very impatient with people and do not suffer fools gladly, in the Spirit I am long suffering. In the Spirit I am quick to forgive, walking in my flesh I hold grudges.

I could go on and on but it is clearly apparent to me that to not be walking in the Spirit is the beginning of a death process. I would and have slowly died on the vine as I resist the small still voice of Jesus and allow my flesh to rule. There is undoubtedly a battle that takes place within us and the flesh always desires to have its way. This is why it is so vital to take up our cross daily and continually die to the flesh.

One last thing, the analogy of the branch only goes so far. A branch cannot deliberately cut itself of from the life giving sap, so the analogy is limited. We on the other hand can quench the work of the Spirit in our lives by allowing the flesh to rule. Hope this helps in some way Sree...........bro Frank

 2016/5/19 13:50









 Re:

Amen, Frank. Parables express parts of spiritual reality. We need the whole counsel of God to fill in the "gaps".

 2016/5/19 14:28
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re: Alan

Brother, there is good amount of wisdom in what you have written. I now clearly understand what it means to be IN Christ and also to REMAIN or ABIDE in Christ.

I still feel my question is only answered in parts here. I still want to see a practical picture of a person who is IN Christ but does not REMAIN or ABIDE. Are they religious Christians? Because the branch is still IN Christ, until God the father has decided to cut it off.

There are some posters here who gave a practical picture. I myself gave one.


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Sreeram

 2016/5/19 15:19Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 692
Texas

 Re:

Dear Sree, it may be that you are looking for personal examples of what this may look like.

These are the examples that come to my mind that were used by the New Testament writers.

John used Diotraphes as an example of someone in a prominent position who was doing wicked works, separating and alienating brothers.

Paul warned of "neophytes" being put into places of responsibility due to the danger of their becoming puffed up and coming into condemnation.

Paul also used the example of those who love pleasure to a greater degree than they love God and have a form of godliness but deny its real power. That sounds like a religious person who claims to be IN Christ.

The example that speaks the most to me is the land that produces only thorns and thistles. All that is necessary for this to happen is for a heart to become fallow. If we do not work and cultivate fruitfulness there is a danger of being cursed.

Mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/19 15:45Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 692
Texas

 Re:

I apologize for the double post. If someone knows how to delete please feel free to.



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Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/19 15:45Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Thank you everyone. It was very useful discussion. Even those who had alternate views on Salvation brought some interesting things into this discussion. I gained lot of understanding through this.

May the Lord make us all fruitful.


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Sreeram

 2016/5/19 20:05Profile





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