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 Re: who's faithness?

Yuehan - Read again what you just posted by Dustin Horstmann

"Really, we need to answer this question to discover what we really stand on in life. Is it Jesus' performance or our performance?

If you rely on your performance in any way, you will not be able to receive from God. Truly, your heart will remain closed because you will never be sure you are doing enough. You will remain vulnerable to sin, sickness and financial problems.

On the other hand, if you see that Christ is your righteousness apart from works (Rom. 4) and that He has forgiven you for all time (Heb. 10), you will say, "Because of Jesus, God's promises are guaranteed."

Remember:

You are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. You have been perfected for all time. This is through grace and not works. Therefore, it is guaranteed. Rest in Him and find your heart opening to receive all the blessings in God's kingdom for you to make you more than a conqueror."

 2016/5/19 10:12
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

The question I asked is about the branches that are IN Christ, whether they are same as those who abides IN Christ. I am thankful for all those who have answered this question of mine.

I am not concerned about God the father removing the non fruit bearing branch. Even if 'remove' is not the right word, it still makes no difference to my question.

I am concerned about a Branch that is IN Christ but does not bear fruit. Let us not go about the end result of this branch, which is to be thrown into fire or destroyed or even Lifted up! But the current state itself which is 'IN Christ' but No Fruits. Is a dangerous state. I am concerned about this state.

So based on some of the posters here, it appears that to be IN Christ is different from Abiding in Christ. May be these branches that were IN Christ did not really Abide. Hence the life did not flow into them. That is why they had no fruits.

In practical terms I think this fruitless state be compared to a person who is still taking the name of Christ, calls himself Christian, goes to Church, lives as a religious Christian but the life of Jesus is not flowing into him. Please let your view on this. How do you see the practical state of a fruitless state of a branch IN Christ.

Now how can we ensure that we are not in this Fruitless state? How do we know that the life of Jesus is flowing into us? Are the fruits referred by Jesus the fruit of Spirit or ministry fruit? A person who has the fruit of Spirit but no ministry fruit, is considered fruitful or fruitless?


_________________
Sreeram

 2016/5/19 10:13Profile









 Re:

Sree you write...........

"So based on some of the posters here, it appears that to be IN Christ is different from Abiding in Christ. May be these branches that were IN Christ did not really Abide. Hence the life did not flow into them. That is why they had no fruits.
In practical terms I think this fruitless state be compared to a person who is still taking the name of Christ, calls himself Christian, goes to Church, lives as a religious Christian but the life of Jesus is not flowing into him. Please let your view on this. How do you see the practical state of a fruitless state of a branch IN Christ."

I believe that bro Mark addressed exactly what you seem to be looking at as he described his own position.......bro Frank

 2016/5/19 10:21
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Quote:

I believe that bro Mark addressed exactly what you seem to be looking at as he described his own position.......bro Frank



Yes I just did it, I appreciate his testimony. I too was in that state. This proves that my understanding of Fruitless Christian who still IN Jesus is correct.

Now my second question is still valid. How do we know know that we are abiding in him? Some practical ways?


_________________
Sreeram

 2016/5/19 10:32Profile









 Re:

Someone "acting" like a Christian, going through the motions but not having the Holy Spirit is still a "child of wrath", whom the Spirit of disobedience is working in.

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Christians are enjoined to examine themselves.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 2016/5/19 11:19
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 692
Texas

 Re: who's faithness?

Dear TUC.

If we "have already been perfected for all time and this is based upon grace not works" as you wrote, how then can Jesus Himself have anything against any one IN Him?

How can Jesus Himself say to the churches - "I have this against you?"

If Jesus sees us as already perfected, why did He Himself say to the believers in Revelation - "...for I have not found your works perfect before God?"

Why would Jesus tell people He viewed as already perfected - "remember the height from which you have fallen, repent and do the first works?"

If Jesus saw believers as you claim He and the Father see them, there is nothing to do, no repentance needed, no reproof necessary.

Can you please explain this apparent contradiction. I say "apparent" because it appears to me to contradict what you have written. Perhaps you do not see it that way and can explain it for me and for others like me who also see problems with what you have written.

Thank you again for your participation in discussing these things with us.

Mak


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/19 11:30Profile









 Re: Alan - already been perfected for all time

I did not write this - I was referring to a post by Yuehan - where he posted an article by Dustin Horstmann.

I think that Dustin is referring to Heb 10:10

(ASV) By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

(Darby) by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

(GNB) Because Jesus Christ did what God wanted him to do, we are all purified from sin by the offering that he made of his own body once and for all.

(ISV*) By God’s will we have been sanctified once and for all through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus, the Messiah. [Or Christ]


(ISV) By God's will we have been sanctified once and for all through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus, the Messiah.

(KJV) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

(LITV) by which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

(Webster) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

(WNT) It is through that divine will that we have been set free from sin, through the offering of Jesus Christ as our sacrifice once for all.

(YLT) in the which will we are having been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once,

Maybe you should ask Dustin Horstmann who wrote the article.


 2016/5/19 11:57
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

Hi Makrothumia,

I believe Dustin is referring to the process of regeneration, whereby a person is made alive unto Christ the moment he believes into Him. This is his true identity assigned by Christ upon his born-again experience.

Hebrews 10:14 sums this up perfectly: "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."

 2016/5/19 12:11Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re: Alan

Brother Alan Martin, what is your view on the branches that are IN Christ and bear no fruits.

Based on the posts here, I have come to conclusion that they are religious Christians, who are taking the name of Jesus, have good external testimony but have no life flowing into them. Basically they are branches in Vine but never abided as a branch. So the Sap or life never flowed into them.


_________________
Sreeram

 2016/5/19 12:37Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 692
Texas

 Re:

Greetings Sree,

I believe we are included IN Christ when we believed, having heard the word of truth, we are sealed IN Him.

Once we are in Christ we must remain in Him, not MOVED from the hope of the gospel. This is what Paul was careful to do when he and Barnabas decided to return to the churches to strengthen the souls of the disciples, urging them to "remain" (ev+meno) in the faith." Acts 14:22

The same word (ev+meno) is found in Jeremiah 31 where God declares His reason for making the New Covent - "because they did not remain in the covenant...". We know that we stand by faith, that is how we remain IN Christ. "Christ dwells in our heart by faith". If we abandon the faith and do not continue in the faith, we will shipwreck our faith.

It is the obedience of faith that secures abiding in Christ's love. "If you keep My commands, you will remain/abide in my love." This is why the writer of Hebrews could write that Christ has become "the source of eternal salvation to all those who are obeying Him."

Obedience in the active expression of faith that remains IN Christ. Unbelief is why branches are broken off. We "stand" or remain IN Christ by faith. If MY RIGHTEOUS ONE shrink back, my soul shall take no pleasure in Him." We know that no one is considered righteous except "by faith", so shrinking back is an expression of unbelief, abandoning the faith.

Paul new that the believers would face the temptation to shrink back and abandon the faith. He also knew that God set aside the first covenant with Israel because they did not "abide in" (remain) in the Covenant. This is also why he expressed his own desire to be found IN Him as he pressed toward the high calling.

I hope that helps. We are initially included IN Christ by faith. Christ dwells in our hearts by faith. We continue to stand by faith. This is what is revealed in the gospel - God's righteousness from faith to faith. Those who endure to the end - faith still working through love will stay IN Christ.

If someone does not remain in Christ, his or her name will be erased from the book of life.

Mak


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/19 13:13Profile





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