| Re: |
Ok, but there is historical context and then spiritual context, right? And comparing spiritual things with spiritual things has been why the church has historically taught that Jesus is not just speaking to His disciples then, but all men for all time.
1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
It's not really the way I interpret (since there is no private interpretation) but how the Holy Spirit teaches and this has been confirmed historically in the Church and the witness of many other scriptures. One cannot abide in Christ unless they are first IN CHRIST, right?
Jesus is saying that we will "continue in His love if we abide (remain) in Him.
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Of course, at the time He was talking to His disciples, but by your logic we cannot now cut out all scriptures in the NT where He was talking to His disciples as not applicable to ALL His disciples for all time.
Jesus mentions in John 15, those who love Him and those who hate Him. Also applicable to all men for all time.
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
Just because no one was saved before Jesus resurrected does not mean that we can ignore the gospels as only applicable to unsaved Jews. Jesus says "he that endures to the end will be saved".
| 2016/5/19 7:56|
| All the resources of the Christian life are in CHRIST|
Many Christians are struggling to live the Christian life, who have never discovered where the strength to live that life is to be found. There are many earnest believers, young and old, who are continually being disappointed and cast down because they are finding their own strength and resources inadequate to meet the demands of true Christian living. And many, many Christians of all ages who are hungering and thirsting after a fuller, deeper life than that which they have up to now experienced. What they need to know, and to know experientially as well as mentally, is that all the resources of the Christian life are in CHRIST, and in Him ALONE, and that He lives in them by the Holy Ghost.
| 2016/5/19 8:02|
| The Father cares for all who belong to Jesus regardless of their fruitfulness."|
Here is what Dr. Earl Radmacher wrote about this passage.
"Jesus is indicating what actually occurred during the Spring, namely, certain non-fruiting branches were "lifted up": (to keep them from touching the ground and setting roots) and tied to trellises along with the fruiting branches while the side shoots of the fruiting branches were being "cleaned up." The non-fruiting branches were allowed to grow with full vigor and without the removal of any side growth or leaves since the more extensive their growth the greater diameter of their stem where it connected to the vine and thus the greater ability for the flow of nutrients from the roots to the branches which would produce more fruit the following season. By removing them from the ground and placing them on the trellis the rows of plants would benefit from unhindered aeration that was considered an essential element to proper fruit development. (24) To see airei as removal (judgment or discipline) is to contradict the actual practice of the time.
What Jesus has said in the first two verses of this beautiful analogy is nothing short of pure encouragement. He has introduced us to a very special "TLC" rule of our Father. He has told them that God the Father cares for them like a vine dresser cares for his grapes. Further, they are each a part of Jesus and draw their spiritual life from Him like branches draw life from the vine. Jesus has affirmed that among those who are believers, those who believe in Him and so belong to Him, those who are "in Him," some are ready to bear fruit and some are not.
God the Father is caring for both groups of believers. The ones not ready to bear fruit are being "lifted up" by Him with a view to future fruitfulness. Thankfully, the Father does not cut off all non-fruiting branches or the vine would never produce fruit. Though they are not fruitful now, they are still important to Him and recipients of His loving concern. The Father is also caring for the ones who are now ready to bear fruit, like the eleven. He is taking those loving actions that will insure their greater fruitfulness. Jesus' point in this verse is singular. God the Father cares for all who belong to Jesus regardless of their fruitfulness."
| 2016/5/19 8:21|
| Re: |
Perhaps it's good to read John 15 alongside Romans 11 (a bit surprised it has yet to be mentioned!):
The olive tree and her branches, branches broken off due to unbelief, etc. So the verses show that a lack of fruit is symptomatic of unbelief. And that we are grafted into Christ - the True Vine / Olive Tree - on the basis of faith in Him, not works.
Putting these thoughts together, I believe so long as we continuing abiding / believing in Christ, we'll bear good fruit. Branches are chopped off due to unbelief, which is the reason for lack of fruit.
| 2016/5/19 8:38||Profile|
| Re: |
It might be that John 15:1 and John 15:6 are describing two separate things. In John 15:1 Jesus said every branch IN ME that does not bear fruit He takes away. If what Tuc is sharing is correct. Then the explanation by Dr. Rademacher make sense in the context of the scriptures. Because in John 15:1 the key phrase is IN ME.
In John 15:6 Jesus said every branch that does not ABIDE IN NE me is thrown away and burned. This verse is clear and that if one is not living in Christ and bearing fruit. He is taken away and burned. This would imply this person is not born again.
So perhaps these questions need to be considered. What does it mean to be IN CHRIST? Is being IN CHRIST the same as ABIDING IN CHRIST?
As usual these are my thoughts promoting these questions. Caps are for emohasis only.
| 2016/5/19 9:25|
| Re: |
"What does it mean to be IN CHRIST? Is being IN CHRIST the same as ABIDING IN CHRIST?"
Abide means to "remain". Many translations use remain in place of abide.
So to abide is to remain. If one chooses to no longer remain in Him then he will become unfruitful and eventually be removed because he becomes a dead branch.
I do not believe that this happens quickly or easily. But I do believe it happens.
I am fully convinced that I was one of those branches who was at risk of being broken off back in 2011. I was no longer abiding in Christ. I was no longer depending on Christ. I was abiding in my flesh and living fully after my own wicked desires. If the Lord Jesus had not had mercy on me I would still be on a path to hell today. Very religious and full of doctrine, but nonetheless...on a very clear path to hell and destruction.
Thank God for His loving kindness and mercy, it is never too late to wake up and repent!!!
| 2016/5/19 9:43|
| Re: |
Brother Blaine writes.......
"So perhaps these questions need to be considered. What does it mean to be IN CHRIST? Is being IN CHRIST the same as ABIDING IN CHRIST?"
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. (Heb 6)
Here the Scriptures speak to one who was once enlightened, one who has tasted of the heavenly gift, been a partaker of the Holy Spirit who have tasted the good word and have touched the power of God and the powers of the world to come who then fall away. These are folks who were "in Christ," but failed to abide in Him. The promises are made to those who " endure till the end," to the " overcomers." So, one can be "in Christ," then fail to abide in Him and then at some point as they starve themselves of the resources ( the sap) of Christ, fall away..........bro Frank
| 2016/5/19 9:43|
| Re: |
Good post bro Mark, we were having the same good thoughts at the same time is seems :) God bless you bro.....bro Frank
| 2016/5/19 9:45|
| Re: bro Frank|
Yes, we must have pressed SUBMIT at the exact same time...may God richly bless your soul this fine spring morning my dear brother:-)
| 2016/5/19 9:47|
| Re: |
Does seem to make sense in terms in what Mark and Frank have shared. That one can be in Christ. But fail to abide or remain in Christ.
| 2016/5/19 10:08|