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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Jonathan Cahn, National Day of Prayer. D. C. 13 minutes

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makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724
Texas

 Re: Be careful about accepting a false premise

God does judge nations and individuals for their unrighteousness and lawlessness. The apostle Paul lays out the basis for the wrath of God being presently revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Any servant therefore who faithfully calls an individual or nation to consider their ways and to seek to know and to serve the living God is one we can support and encourage.

However, we should examine the premise that Jonathan Cahn puts forth as the basis for disciplinary judgments from God. Were the nations ever given the Law of Moses? Were they not "excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of promise?"

Even the people of Israel recognized that the gentile nations were not given the Law they had received. Psalm 147:19-20 - "The one reporting his word to Jacob, His righteous ordinances and judgments to Israel. He did not do this to every nation and His judgments He did not manifest to them."

Jonathan Cahn asserts that the U.S. has experienced God's judgments that correspond to the Law of Moses specifically given to Israel. There are many reasons that God can and will judge our nation, but judging the United States and any other western gentile nation according to the Law of Moses given for the people of Israel is a dubious premise.

mak


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/9 5:14Profile









 Re:

Mak,

Your probably right, Israel was given a way back to God. America is Babylon the great so........no way back.

marcmc

 2016/5/9 6:18









 Re:

No Mak,
That's not what Cahn puts forth at all. He does not put forth a law, but corresponding results of God's Judgements as a historic pattern of God's "Ways" & principles in dealing with a nation that rejects him in wholesale by a very key set of ways. This is the most common misunderstanding of what he said/didn't say. Never comes from one who actually read the books & watched the videos in his own words. Only if you saw a 1 minute clip & deduced wrongly from it, or just googled it & read what the internet "hacks" on "discernment sites" (ironic to me because often these are the most lacking in the actual gift of "discerning between good & evil spirits") wrote to chew up & spit out everyone not just like them. Both of Cahn's books, The "Mystery" of the Harbinger & the "Mystery" of the Shemitah are called "The MYSTERY" (as in prophetic mystery), not "The Law of...". He is also always very careful & clear NOT to set dates, to say "nothing specific HAS to happen here as we might think, God's prophetic ways are easier to see in the rearview than to exactly detail them in the future, but I believe judgement of a greater shaking still is still coming & the one and only answer is found in the Messiah, Jesus Christ". I was extremely "skeptical" when I read the Harbinger. But after reading the whole work, seeing the things "beyond mere coincidence only", knowing the ways of God throughout the Word & even modern history since, etc., I am convinced the brother was on to something accurate & true. David Wilkerson said similar things to Cahn & most don't attack him as false (I'm pretty sure "Set the Trumpet to Thy Mouth", "The Vision", etc. were books that were printed & sold also). But for those that attack Wilkerson as false too, nothing will convince those people anyways in my opinion, for regardless of their allegedly publicly admitted theological Leanings, they are "practical cessationists" where no prophet is real until it meets "their" criteria (which no one ever does because they have a fundamental misunderstanding between the difference between OT Prophets' ministry & the NT Prophetic Gifting &/or Office). I have written on that here at length before & posted John Piper's article on "NT Prophets vs OT Prophets" which is the best short succinct article on the subject IMHO. But those who are convinced or not will likely stay that way I guess.
Anyways, God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/5/9 8:57









 Re:

Not so. The way back is always the same for every nation (& every individual within any nation):

"Repent & believe the Gospel, & be Born Again"!!!
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/5/9 9:01
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724
Texas

 Re:

Dear Jeff, I assure you that I watched more than a minute. While presuming that another has not listened closely you actually make the presumption. The cycle is tied to the year of release that was part of the covenant with Israel. I realize that we can find patterns and types within the law, but after listening to Jonathan Cahn speak for himself and weighing carefully what I heard him say, I am not convinced.

You are and that is the simple difference. The only valid covenant that is still fully in effect is the New Covenant that was instituted when the seed of Abraham appeared, died, and rose again. I have heard those who make the claim that the "spiritual fathers" in the US entered into covenant with God and that His judgments are upon us for forsaking that said covenant.
I am not of faith to accept his assertions and will caution others to be careful about doing so.

Mak


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/9 10:14Profile









 Re:

And that's fine brother.

But just for clarity, I also don't believe we (as in America) actually have a "covenant" in the traditional/Biblical sense of the Word, with God either. Nor do I believe the judgements befalling this nation are "Laws" as a result of failure to keep a "covenant". But I do believe God's "ways" are the same nonetheless. And particularly if you read The Harbinger & look at the things that have taken place in America, & compare the similarities to how God dealt with ancient Israel & Detailed these things in the book of Isaiah: the events are beyond coincidence. And they are, if nothing else by the pure Statistical Analysis Laws of Probability, beyond the ability to be enforced, manipulated, or contrived by man. So I do think God uses these things to speak. And especially am not against the notion that He would do so in the country that has sent more missionaries, had more believers, etc. (historically, modern day harlot/apostasy aside). We still do fund 90% of the Christian missionaries in the world - FYI. So while Christendom is in a massive disarray of spiritual cardiac arrest here, even the remnant is enough to make the dealings of God with this nation (on top of all the other issues that are so "Sodomite" & "Babylonian" it's staggering) plausible.

It's the collective info/warning as a whole, along with the parallelism of the prophetic warnings of other great prophetic watchmen like Wilkerson, Katz, Tozer, Ravenhill, Dudamen, Gruver, Jackson, etc., etc. & what few things the Lord has spoken/shown to me & other "unknown" people in the Body that lead me to be perfectly comfortable with Cahn's message (not to mention His point in the end is ALWAYS repentance, faith, & new birth in Christ). Not saying Cahn is interpreting EVERYTHING absolutely 100% accurate/perfect, but again, name me one NEW COVENANT era prophet you would point to who was 100% SPOT ON PERFECT in everything they said, spoke, saw, shared, predicted, & how they interpreted such prophetic messages? I can't think of 1. That doesn't bother me ba cause I think I understand the NT Prophetic Gifting/Role/Nature/Office fairly well.

And so if we can't name 1 that's 100% PERFECT in all things, either they don't have to be (in the exact same way as the fully inspired & infallible OT Prophetic Words recorded in scripture), or they don't exist anymore at all since the closing of the canon (cessationism). These are the only logical & viable options. Anyways, just my 2 cents. And the fact that people say "we aren't under the law" de facto shows they don't actually understand the sharing of the Word in the first place &/or the nature of the what is intending to be (& not be) shared. A pattern in my observation that I have seen many times.
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/5/9 10:47
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724
Texas

 Re:

Thanks Jeff,
In what you have just written I find substantial agreement. God raises up prophets to call societies to repentance and to graciously warn them that His judgment can be avoided. I can rejoice in Cahns role in this even while I doubt some of his details.

Mak


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/9 10:59Profile









 Re:

Jeffmar wrote "Not so. The way back is always the same for every nation (& every individual within any nation):

"Repent & believe the Gospel, & be Born Again"!!!
God Bless,"

For clarity my reference was to the act that if America is under no concession of Isreal then a market crash is the least of concerns. America is Babylon the Great so repenting and believing the Gospel does not really line up with my reading of the outcome in Revelation.

marcmc

 2016/5/9 20:47
Pnutty
Member



Joined: 2016/3/14
Posts: 162
Branson, MO

 Re: My apology

Greg and readers I apologize.

I think it is fitting for me to not put any links anymore. I repent.

I am like a bull in a china shop, or an exuberant toddler. Ive been told dont touch and then I go and do it again anyway. I really need to keep my hands to myself!

No more links from me!


_________________
Linda

 2016/5/10 7:07Profile





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