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 911: The Road to Tyranny - Must see documentary

Let me start by saying that if you are prone to living in fear of Satan and what he does to try and control this world, this is not the thread for you. Please do not give yourself a reason for fear.

But if you are confident that Jesus has all power in heaven and earth and can trust Him with no fear of the devil, you may want to read on.

Have you been bothered by the surveillance cameras at every city stop light? Have you been noticing the freedoms that are being jeopardized in the name of fighting terror?

I have recently come across a powerful documentary about the operations of the One World crowd to slowly rob Americans of their freedoms of speech and religion. I feel very betrayed by President Bush and others. Let me say that I am a very conservative, Bible believing Christian. I'm not a liberal in any way. But I think we need to see the fulfillment of what Corrie Ten Boom prophesied would happen to America. She said that America would suffer a worse holocaust than Europe did. Friend, it is happening. Our freedoms are being taken away. People really trust the government. And the people are saying almost nothing just like in Germany. With that said, here is the link to the documentary to watch and know how to pray and how to act in these last days: (follow instructions to view the video)

http://www.infowars.com/tyranny.htm

Click on the right side bar where it says:
"Go" - Watch 40 minutes of the 144 minute film(thanks to Defenders of Freedom.org)

It let me view the whole thing in Real Player. This is quite a wake up call.

Please keep an objective mind and try to judge the documentary by the material presented.

RT

 2005/5/23 21:21Profile









 Re: 911: The Road to Tyranny - Must see documentary

What do you expect? What did you expect?
What do you expect from the world? or world systems.

But methinks you're already living in fear. oh yes.

Methinks, that you link up a website from a non-believer like Alex Jones, because you are sowing fear. Why do you think the govt ALLOWS guys like Alex Jones to operate?

Because he perpetuates the notion of the omnipotent big brother govt, that can do anything they want.

This is a totally anti-christ message, and you are bringing it to this website.

The Only Omnipotent One is the Lord, fear the Lord, don't be fearing some godless govt, but that aint the message your bringing here, or in other threads.

on another note, you say

Quote:
Let me say that I am a very conservative, Bible believing Christian. I'm not a liberal in any way.



I'm a Biblical conservative in ALL ways, and at times that might make me appear liberal in a secular political sense....such as Isaiah 58, Repairer of Broken Walls, or the Lord's continual concern for the poor, the widowed, orphaned, dispossessed.

back to the above, you're fearmongering, spreading fear, and its wrong for this website.

 2005/5/24 15:26
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Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re: Neilgin1

Neilgin1,

You know, I am not surprised that you would write this. But it does make me sad for you. You have always been accusing and hateful toward me. Especially when I am being sincere. Even Satan doesn't bother to accuse me like you do.

I think that it is quite obvious to all here that I am NOT a fearmongerer. Even when I try to make it absolutely clear as to my intentions, you try to throw it in my face. Well it won't work, sir. God knows my heart. And I am thankful that a great many more people here do too.

You have written NOTHING to discount ANYTHING in the documentary. But you HAVE done all you can to discount me personally. That says it all.

We cannot be ignorant of Satan's devices. It is not wrong to keep abreast of world events. It is not wrong to question what we hear. It is not wrong to question the media. In fact, any truth seeker will. Hopefully the rest of us (including myself) can keep ourselves from personal attacks and characterizations. Let's take the high road, instead of jumping at the chance of dragging a brother through the ditch as we have seen done in the above post.

Neilgin1, let's be done with this right here. I think we all know how you feel. I don't have anything against you whatsoever. God is your judge, not me. Bless you.

Now if someone has something to say about the documentary or make a comment on it's content, lets do that. May peace pravail. Let's be PEACEMAKERS.

Much love,

RT

 2005/5/24 16:45Profile









 Re: 911: The Road to Tyranny - Must see documentary

RT

I can understand Neil opinion, and I am sure you do to. Whatever the world does it does, but it does it according to the will of God. President Bush and my Prime Minster Martin is in office by the will of God not by the will of man. God sets up one kingdom and tears down another. Satan may be the god of this world, but Satan doesn't own this world our heavenly Father owns it, and all of it is under his control and jursdiction. The earth is the LORD's and the fulness thereof.

Christians think that Satan is the ruler of this world, he is not. Satan lied in the wilderness when he said, "all these kingdoms have been given unto me, I can give to whom ever I please". He is a liar and the father of it.

If it's God's plan for a America to crumble, what in the world can we do to stop it? Nothing!! We are not here to save our living, we are here as pilgrims, our city is not New York or Toronto, it's the New Jerusalem which is above. We live for that city, our investments are on things that are above not in this flesh or the earth.

God our Father is doing something that will stir our hearts to seek His face, and He wants us to trust Him for the days ahead and not in the those things that don't amount to a hill of beans.

RT, I am not saying that that is where your heart is, please do not miscontrude what I am saying, and do not direct these my words towards you, I am just sharing thoughts regarding the world and the way it operates.

And that operation is all from God. God moves the hands of men, He moves armies and sends them forth to do His bidding. He changes the map thru war and circumstances and treaties.

If another force comes and takes over North America, it is God's will that it's here.

The World Wars were orchestrated by God, yes death comes to all men who fight, but after the war it started a chain reaction to what we have today. It was leading up to something else. That war was so bad and so greivous that it produced exactly what God intended it to produce.

It was God's will for Babylon to be built in times past, Ninevah was another plan, Greece and Rome all were part of the plan. And finally, in the fullness of time, Christ came forth by the seed of a woman. All was God's will and His plan and purpose. Nothing is by chance, He allows nothing He only wills it.

We must come to the resignation of ourselves that whether we are rich or whether we are poor we are there becuase it's our season to be there. God will exalt us in due time if we faint not. He wills it for me to draw closer to Him, I do nothing of mine own self. My salvation was not of me, but the Spirit drew me and He even opened my mouth and put the words there to say, "LORD SAVE ME, and come into my heart", nothing is by man, nothing is by chance, lest we should boast, but all things are to be given back to Him in praise and adoration and thanks giving.

Karl

 2005/5/24 18:03
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: is this an opportunity to seek repentance

I took a peek at the site. I'd prefer to keep my illusions - that the world is not such a bad place.

I feel sorry for all the unbelievers who witness horrible stuff like is on this site. Without hope in Christ they will be filled with TERROR. Scripture prophesies this several times.

However for me, gruesome things like this keep pointing me directly to God. I hear his plea.

God's cry is the same as it was through the ancient prophets: "[size=large][color=000099]IF[/color][/size] you repent I will heal your land, and forgive you.... and[size=large][color=000099]IF[/color][/size] you don't return to me, many terrible things will happen."

Before we give up, shouldn't we at least plead to God to have mercy? Shouldn't we cry out, mourn, and weep? Shouldn't we, like the prophets cry out, "Lord, we have sinned, we and our forefathers, and our people..." ?

Dr. E. Orr pointed out that, historically, God sent revival BEFORE major catastrophies happened in history (ex: war). And he also pointed out that before revival happened, God's people turned to prayer. That's us!!!!

In the ashes of God's judgments, I expect that there will be a lot of new life spring up - a great coming harvest.
Diane


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Diane

 2005/5/24 19:30Profile
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Posts: 257
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 Re: God's will or permission?

Diane,

Great comments. You're right. This should drive us to the Lord. We are children of the light and should not be "in the dark" as to what is going on around us. We need to take the opportunity to show men that they can't put their trust in man and cause them to run for safety into the arms of Jesus. Bless you.

Healingwaters,

Hey man, thanks for your very cool attitude in discussing this. I totally hear ya. This is exactly what I was getting at in my original preface to all of this. Jesus is King of it all. He will be King during the reign of antichrist. He will have "all power". He knows how to deliver His own. So I am in total agreement there. Praise God.

Here's where I would disagree with you:

Quote:
He allows nothing He only wills it.



This statement goes against the clear teaching of Scripture. Check out 2 Pet. 3:9:

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

So here we are told that it is NOT God's will that any should perish. Yet we all know that many multitudes will indeed perish. (Rev. 21:8)

Yet this supposition has even deeper ramifications. To say that God allows nothing, but every thing that happens is according to His will is to say that God wills sin. This is actually blasphemy and grave heresy. Now I don't think that you were meaning to blaspheme. But if you take the supposition out to its logical extent, we can assume no less. God forbid.

It is not God's will that we sin. If it is God's will that we sin, then what basis of righteousness would He have to judge us for doing the very thing which He willed. No, this is not acceptable. Adam and Eve violated God's will for them in the Garden. Sin is a violation of God's will as expressed by His Word.

If all that happens is God's will, then why do we need to "prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
(Romans 12:2)

"Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is." (Ephesians 5:17)

If everything was the will of God, then we wouldn't have to have wisdom to understand what it was. Everything that happened, good or bad, would be the will of God. Yet this is obviously not so.

As to world events, they should never take the place of the gospel. Period. Yet we should not desire ignorance. Else how could we pray? Whether we receive information from verified reports or from the Holy Spirit, we should know how to pray.

May God send a sweeping revival of repentance and the preaching of the true gospel to North America!

RT

 2005/5/24 20:52Profile









 RT Let me be more clear

You know brother, please know that the last thing I wish to be is hateful towards you. If you feel that I am being such, I repent in an instant.

Nor do I wish to accuse you, but since your first post here, you've come on like a 500 pound KJV only Gorilla. Face it, you have. You've seem to foster division, under the guise of "Recieved Text", meaning that any other version of the Bible is corrupted, and the reader of such corrupted text are "less-than" Christians.

This is divisive, I'm sure you're sincere, in that you believe that the only Bible a believer should be feasting off of is the King James Version. I have in my hand my NIV Bible, which I love to read, and such reading and study has been very very profitable to me, and rest assured, I believe in the Deity of Jesus, and the Triune Godhead.

In my short time as a believer I've noticed several commonalities about those who are very vocal about their KJV onlyism status: they seem to also be very vocal in their anti-romanism as well.

I have handed out many many Chick Tracts, (Demon's Nightmare is my favorite) but I can't hand out any of the anti-roman tracts to Latino day laborer's, coz I'll lose them, thats how hate filled they are. Is Chick saying anything thats untrue in those tracts?

no, but use your gourd, what do you think Paul meant when he said, "when I am among the Jews"?

If you want to stand up on your soapbox, and scorch the community of believers in the name of the 'truth', go for it, but the only real Truth is Christ and Him crucified, thats it...not whether you RT have the real Bible.

as far as Alex Jones is concerned, yes you are fear-mongering. Alex Jones is a non-believer, and I question where his REAL heart space is. I've seen the word "Global Elite" used to refer to my people the Jews in the verbiage of the far far right.

as far as the "truth" of his video, brother, the depravity and the sin of the worldly leaders is much deeper and darker than the simplistic video messrs Jones presents. The truth is the world leaders, whether they be those within the American military-industrial complex, or the Saudi royal petrocracy, or the communist functionaries in the peoples republic of china who control the factories that pump out the vast river of cheap consumer goods that fill the walmarts of this land, the thread is the same.....all these world leaders HAVE THEIR GOD, and their god is the dollar, and for that they will suffer and burn;

for our God is a jealous God.

Forgive me, if I seem hateful to you, that is not my intention. I just think that you foster fear and division, and I'm calling you on it.

 2005/5/24 21:10









 Re: Ugly and Beautiful

My Friend RT, God knows who are His, He knows who is and who isn't. He knows who should be saved and who should not be saved. God is long suffering not willing that any should perish. Does that mean die without salvation? or does that mean not coming to the knowledge of the truth?

Now lets read the verse and see whom Peter is referring to, is he referring to the World or the Church.

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to [b]us-ward[/b], not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Us-ward, the Church. Jesus said, "I pray not for the world, only those that you have given to me". What a statement to make, it goes against our tradition in praying for the world. But Jesus doesn't want us to pray for the world, He wants us to pray for one another. Why? So we can love one another. Why?

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

More people have come in via thru this LOVE more than anything else. It's not done thru pumped up preaching or songs, it's done when you and I love one another to death, it's thru that love that the world takes notice, and wants to be apart of that. They are not interested in doctrine, or creeds or liturgies and sacraments, when they see that kind of love, they will be drawn to it. Some will kill some will join.

There is more in this verse, lets consider Repentance.

Repentance? Us, repent? It seems that if we lack knowledge or wisdom, we lack because something else is taking our time. For example, Martha was perishing for a lack of wisdom in her ordeal with trying to get things set up for dinner, but Mary had wisdom and her table was set to receive from the LORD. Martha was rebuked by Jesus.

You see, it's says, "MY PEOPLE perish for a lack knowledge".

When you and I lack wisdom and we fail miserably in our attempts to do the right thing, we are perishing.

When believers such as ourselves do not understand why we do the things that we do, we are perishing for a lack of knowledge and understanding of what to do. That is why we should seek after wisdom, and with all thy getting, get understanding, because she will lead you and guide you into all truth, so we won't perish in our thinking.

That is the meaning of that verse.

Now the meaning of John 3:16 is talking about salvation thru faith.

In seeking God, I have found God to be both Beautiful and Ugly at the same time. His ways are truly higher than our ways, and His ways are past finding out. I know a fraction of His ways, but I don't know them all. He takes us thru experinces, some are good and others are down right scary. If I told this forum some of those ways, I know that they would either see me or God as out to lunch, because when it says His ways are higher than ours, that really means that they are beyond our reach to understand them unless He comes near to reveal them.

When you forsake all that you have been taught and all that seems dear to you in the ways of theology He comes near to bring something that you long for, truth. Truth that is not buried in philosophical mishmash, but truth that brings you closer to Himself. It's like the carrot before the horse, only the LORD holds out the carrot to you so you can get a taste, and then he allows that carrot to swing back and forth again, but all the time your wanting that carrot your moving in the direction He wants you to, otherwise if that carrot wasn't there you probably would have seen all that was taking place around you and wanted to turn back. But the carrot is the LORD, and His ways taste sweet and sometimes His ways taste bitter.

In my last post, I meant all that I said. Those who do not understand lack understanding. God is not stupid, He knows who are His and He knows who will be saved.

Warmly
Karl :-)

 2005/5/24 21:51









 Re: Traditions about God

RT wrote:

Quote:
It is not God's will that we sin. If it is God's will that we sin, then what basis of righteousness would He have to judge us for doing the very thing which He willed. No, this is not acceptable. Adam and Eve violated God's will for them in the Garden. Sin is a violation of God's will as expressed by His Word.



It's not God's will that we sin, yet He put a tree in the Garden of Eden and told two people that don't know anything about death, only that God said the day you eat thereof you shall die. In the Garden of Eden was life, there was no death. Adam and Eve had no concept of death, death was foriegn to them.

You see we were created in His image and in His likeness, and then He tells them "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat"

I am going to share something with you that will only cause most of you to think that I am a blasphemer. But I am going to say it anyways.

It was God's will for man to sin. (stone throwing will be held on Thursday at 8am, rain or shine).

There is one element that most do not know God is a saviour, and to be saviour you need to save people or things. You see, how can you be a saviour when there is nothing to save? How can you show forth your atributes, your virtues or even your longsuffering when there is nothing to show that forth. If we were all created perfect will any want of anything, we absolutely had all our senses satisfied. How can God show forth His longsuffering when there is no suffering? How can He show forth His mercy when everyone is perfect? Can you see what God was doing? He was revealing Himself. Only a few saw this, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses etc..

And when Jesus came, the revelation of the Father was revealed thru Him thru the preaching and miracles and healings and no one saw the Father, not even His desciples. Philip even asked, show us the Father.

I can prove that God is a saviour, with the way He instantly dealt with Adam and Eve's disobedience.

As soon as Adam and Eve sinned, instantly a remedy was put in place. God tells the Serpent that He shall bruise his head and he shall bruise His heel, speaking of Jesus Christ who was slain BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of the world.

God was waiting for them to eat of that tree, so that He can enter the picture and be a saviour. Notice, He cursed the Serpent, told Eve she would be in pain bearing children, and Adam was going to labour for his food. God didn't curse Adam, he cursed the ground instead. And then God makes them clothes, begins to teach them how to survive and to collect seeds for sowing etc..and learn to eat animals etc..

It seems that God had everything planned out for His new creation.

What the problem is in most peoples minds is that they think that evil is a flaw, and to artribute that to God as apart of God's character then God has a flaw, but He has no flaws. It depends upon how you see it. When I got the strap from my dad, that strapping was evil to me, but later on it produced fruit. And I look back at that, and say that that which I considered evil was good.

Our trials and our petty tribulations that we go thru we consider it to be bad, we don't like to go thru it.

When we read in the Psalms when David said, "Thy Rod and thy staff bring me comfort". He was saying, your rod of correction and your guiding staff bring me comfort. It may look like evil but it's good. Gods ways are above our ways, they are past finding out.

It's time to shed off traditions of what you think of God or Jesus Christ.

I don't even want to know Jesus Christ according to the flesh. I want to know Him the way He is right this moment. Paul was the same way, read what he had to say about it.

"Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more."

If we know Christ no more after the flesh and henceforth we know Him no more, I ask, who is going to be coming in the clouds of heaven?

Are we going to stick with tradition or are we going to allow the holy Ghost to have His wonderful way in us and teach us the beautiful and ugly ways of God?

Karl


8-)

 2005/5/24 22:45
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Do I dare...

Put my big toe in this?...

Karl, not to think there is an ancient version of dodge ball coming at you. But something isn't making quite sense here. Using the word 'will' may be problematic. That everything is laid out so that God might be Saviour isn't completely out of reach, but don't really find that to be the case as toward His [i]will[/i]. Very hard to reconcile that.

God's [i]reasons[/i] for His purposes may be one of those areas that will remain off limits to our understanding, not that he has left us in the dark completely. What God [i]knows[/i], what He [i]allows[/i] and what He [i]wills[/i] seem very difficult to resolve this easily.

If I am your father and I just happen to make electric cook tops for a living (A little exaggerated illustration here) and I command you not to touch it because you will get burned (Even if it's off, the principle is to put the fear in you to stay away from it). Have I created that which is inherently 'evil' or wrong because of it's possibilities? Would I therefore hope for disobedience, so that I could heal you when your hand gets burned? (Forgot to mention that "I" have an undergraduate degree in medicine).

To shorten this a bit. If the Lord [i]commanded[/i] DON'T eat of the tree, or even if it had been "DON'T cross your eyeballs or you will die". The point seems to be. "I am your creator. Fear Me. I have the power of life and death. Listen to what I say to you." From what I can gather, the Lord 'willed' nothing of the sort other than as God He gave us the ability to say no to Him (Credit to Philologos, that has stuck permanently).

Quote:
What the problem is in most peoples minds is that they think that evil is a flaw, and to attribute that to God as apart of God's character then God has a flaw, but He has no flaws. It depends upon how you see it. When I got the strap from my dad, that strapping was evil to me, but later on it produced fruit. And I look back at that, and say that that which I considered evil was good.



Don't think evil was a 'flaw' at all but a natural reaction to the [i]possibilities[/i] that he gave us as His creation. If all the angels and the creation had obeyed there would be no evil, how could it co-exist? Perhaps it could be said that evil 'created' itself out of the possibilities of God [i]allowing[/i] "us" to [i]choose this day who you will serve[/i].

Karl the problem with this (and likely my own here) is that it is full of ramifications as you are construing it, it has that robotic feel to it. Certainly it is not [i]beyond[/i] Him and full understand His Sovereignty. The other problem with dissecting all of this is in 'time' our 'time' vs. God's 'time', it's a hunch, but "Before the foundations of the world" may not mean what you are thinking here.

Quote:
I don't even want to know Jesus Christ according to the flesh. I want to know Him the way He is right this moment. Paul was the same way, read what he had to say about it.

"Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more."

If we know Christ no more after the flesh and henceforth we know Him no more, I ask, who is going to be coming in the clouds of heaven?

Are we going to stick with tradition or are we going to allow the holy Ghost to have His wonderful way in us and teach us the beautiful and ugly ways of God?



"[b]though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more[/b]"

Don't think this means what you are thinking here either brother. Wasn't that implying the fact that He is no longer walking about on the face of the earth, not that He will no longer have [i]flesh and bones[/i] ...

Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Besides...

Act 1:11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him going into heaven."

Realize as well where this could all end up going but there is again much more of scripture to contend with and am not really stating this all in the way I might prefer. Hopefully (likely) someone will come along and straighten us both out.

RT and Neilgen.

Hard words and yet somewhat necessary. There was much that by way of setting a tone here that rubbed many of us the wrong way RT. Will not add anymore to it, just to keep in mind that you are amongst brethren and primarily truth seeking hearts. There is a vast array of different longevity in this walk and much forbearance needed. We do not take kindly to those that come in well intentioned or not and push forth an agenda or a teaching ministry or whatever it is they have a bug about, that is to speak in general as much as to yourself. But with that perhaps there has been some understanding as the tone seems to have dropped a bit and maybe more so as you open up yourself more, more of the effect of the doctrine that you put forth often quite well. In other words, your life brother. What effect has the Lord had on your life and what can we all glean from that. We all have our quirks and soft spots and things that can get that righteous indignation up and just as well there is a great band of misfits here that are truly deserving of the name. Flaws, warts and all.

I am tired, rambling here...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/5/25 0:53Profile





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