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Jeff, it is hard not to notice that you have a habit of adding or taking away from people's words by rewriting what you think they are saying (paraphrasing them) instead of quoting their words. Yes, I said that I believe your future view presents a false Gospel, and False Christ. I did not say anyone who believed it was not saved since obviously they are believing the present Gospel, but you have posted that many times. Since your view presents a different salvation and a gospel by a different Christ (in my opinion) in a future time to come, I am of the belief it is incorrect. Incorrect = false in my opinion.

What you have done is implied that since I believe a future gospel and plan of salvation is incorrect that I also believe current believers who believe this future theology will happen are also not saved. That is dishonest and you are asking me to apologize for something I did not say. I am no one's judge, but I do have liberty from the Lord to judge doctrine, and compare what people say with the Word of God.

It would be helpful if you would stop paraphrasing people's words and quote them exactly.

 2016/5/16 15:19


Edited for additional question at the end:

I never intended to misquote you friend. Here are your EXACT/QUOTED words (the original title of your thread you said in a previous post "I've been holding back waiting to post"):

"Pre-Millinealism. False Gospel. False Christ. False Salvation."

Now that's pretty plain spoken & easy to understand to me. Especially since Paul says "if anyone comes to you preaching another GOSPEL, or another JESUS...Let him be accursed (damned)."

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth or misquote you. For someone who quotes the Word on here a lot, I assume you understand the theological salvific implications of statements like:

"Pre-Millinealism. False Gospel. False Christ. False Salvation."

I know I do.

So what does a true convert with a false Gospel, False Christ, & especially a false salvation look like? Scripture knows nothing of the sort.

 2016/5/16 15:34

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37517
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


And Julius especially, I just want to apologize for some of the way I dealt with one of the other posts & the situation. I certainly didn't mean to berate or belittle, my heart was actually far different than that, but I realize it can come across differently. And at some point, I should have just let it die, but a specific nerve was hit & all in line with other things the Lord had made clear to me, but I should not have continued to go on. It didn't result in anything positive anyways after awhile what was said was said, & I should have left it be & moved on & I didn't. Anyways, my heart is for the Body of Christ, the Word of God, the person of Jesus, & the Spirit's work to be embraced & heralded, but I let something I think was wrong get me out of sorts & for that I do honestly want to humble myself & apologize.

Brother Jeff,

I am thankful what you wrote that there is a sense of repentance in your heart not to belittle or berate saints. It is also good that you realize your interactions have been not self-controlled or restrained but at times you "reacted" when you should not have and been slower to speak:

James 1:19 New International Version (NIV)

19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,

Let us be clear also that we can differ on end-times views of the Scriptures but that does not mean we are false converts, or false gospel preachers, etc. It is important that we find our unity in the blood of Jesus Christ, the cross of Christ and that we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God and part of the body of Christ.

At times I have found dis-unity with other brethren over doctrines and did not look to them as truly brothers who are bought by the redeemers blood. We do not hold to brethren who hold to Amillennialism as false gospel believers, though I do not believe it is a clear Biblical belief of the church over the 2000 years.

So there is no place on a discussion forum to accuse other brothers and sisters of things that really are not true. This also goes the other way for saints who have entered into these debates without love, or charity and seemed to be "bent" on proving they are right. This can all happen while our lives are full of sin and hidden faults. God does really not care if we are crystal perfect on doctrines if our life is wrong and sins are being practiced.

There is no point to win an argument, unless the Holy Spirit allows us to be doers of the Word then we will not be pleasing to the Lord. Jesus did not try and convince His disciples of an end-times theology but rather told them to:

Matthew 24:13 New International Version (NIV)

13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Are we standing firm? Are we following the Lord daily as disciples has to be the question.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/5/16 16:11Profile

Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 692


A little poem to make a point:

I could not help but notice, but it appears that you are bleeding
So here's a little bandaid for the wound you got from reading.

I didn't mean to hurt you, God knows my heart was true
I simply want the record straight so I wrote back to you

I normally am very nice though sometimes word can hurt
To prove it, here's a rag to use to help clean off the dirt

Sometimes in these discussions we need to set things right
But I never mean to hurt someone whenever I do fight

Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/16 16:32Profile

Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


Brother Greg,

was your post directed at a larger audiance than just Jeff of whom it was addressed ?

 2016/5/16 16:43Profile

Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 692


Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/16 16:51Profile


by jeffmar1130 on 2016/5/16 15:34:36

So what does a true convert with a false Gospel, False Christ, & especially a false salvation look like? Scripture knows nothing of the sort.

Jeff, you are preaching and teaching a gospel/salvation to come, in my opinion that has nothing to do with today's gospel. I am pretty sure I understand now why you superimpose your thoughts on what others say. You simply don't understand what they are saying. That means you are misunderstanding them. Well, I certainly don't hold that against you. Maybe, just ask for clarity in the future.

 2016/5/16 17:00


" This can all happen while our lives are full of sin and hidden faults. God does really not care if we are crystal perfect on doctrines if our life is wrong and sins are being practiced".

Amen that is very, very true. I think on forums and within church communities we must defer to the will of those who lead. If their position is different to ours we must back away and leave it alone. To come at it again and again shows we have an agenda and that in itself stirs up strife.

It takes two to tango. Jeff may have been out of line with his harsh comments but Julius you are not without guilt either. If I am in an ongoing disagreement with another party and my words keep stirring them up and things get ugly then I can help to put the fire out by saying nothing and walking away. But then in all fairness threads that turn ugly should be locked immediately.

 2016/5/16 17:04


Say what????

I just don't understand?

I quoted you verbatim & I quoted Paul in Scripture, and it seems pretty simple really.

But, whatever.

 2016/5/16 17:13


Ok, Mark. I appreciate your directness.

Jeff, my apologies for commenting, but you posted more than once that I don't answer you.

By the way, would you delete your post in my new thread about typologies of Christ in the OT? Otherwise, I will need to create a new one since your post has nothing to do with it.


Oh, I see others have posted. Don't worry, I'll just create a new one.

 2016/5/16 17:16

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