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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Genesis 1 and 2

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

A couple of questions:

1) when were angels created? Is there biblical support for the idea they were created prior to Gen 1?

2) for those who believe in a young earth (10,000 years or less) what proof would you accept for an old (billions of years) earth?


_________________
Todd

 2016/5/2 13:58Profile
JHerndon
Member



Joined: 2010/8/1
Posts: 92
Bonifay,Fl

 Re:

I'm not sure if there is any biblical proof angels existed before. And I do hold to a young earth but I'm not anti old earth. Just not sure about the gap theory. If you read the bible you get no indication the earth is millions of years old. But if someone tells you the earth is millions of years old the only place to insert that is at the beginning. And that's a stretch in my opinion. I am not as learned in this as I once was. When I was serving in Ireland the major issue with college age evangelism was evolution so they were really big on creation and had speakers come in. I mention Ken Ham earlier who has some great points. Not that I agree with everything he says. I think I remember some about desertification. That is the earth was millions of years old deserts would be much bigger. I remember this vaguely so I could be mistaken in that. In my opinion an old earth just doesn't make sense. And I know people say what about carbon dating but again that is proven in accurate. What about animal bones and trees that are hundreds of thousands of years old? Well when God made Adam and Eve they weren't babies so it would make sense if he did the same with the rest of creation


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Joshua Herndon

 2016/5/2 21:39Profile









 Re:

JHerdon,

The animals would still have had to die! God did not make a bunch of bones.

Gap does not agree with evolution. These are different positions.

Job 38:6-7 shows angels watching God create and praising Him while He did it.

Satan is clearly fallen in the garden.

2Peter 2:4 shows angels being cast into hell

Jesus says in Matthew 25:41 that hell was prepared for the devil and his demons. But in Genesis everything created was declared good, so hell was clearly created at a different time.

And why would Lucifer be created perfect and Man in the image of God only be called Good. We know that there is the good, acceptable and perfect will of God. ( Romans 12 )You would think God got this backwards with man and Lucifer.

Isaiah 14 Show Lucifer being cast to Hell, the sides of the pit showing these places predate Adams creation. Otherwise he would have had to create them during the Adamic 6 days and called them good at that time.

Ezekiel 28 God says he will bring him to ashes upon the earth. Strange thing to say if it's after the earth has been declared good. Perfectly normal thing to say if it's referring to an earth that He would re-new later in six days.

I could go on for days but I think these are a few to chew on.

Please forgive that I did not copy out the entire versus but simply paraphrased, on this device it's a hassle but the versus are there for your study.

The answer to the few questions here and the hundreds more are keys into very deep things. And it does have a profound effect on us. If you really want to understand anything you have to view the beginning correctly.
Marc mc

 2016/5/3 8:54
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Yeah josh I don't buy the gap theory- I just think the universe is very old.

People bring up radio metric dating and how inaccurate it is.

It may not be perfectly accurate but can it be millions of years off?

Plus, Christians are happy to defer to carbon dating if it suits them, such as dating an archaeological find to the correct point in scripture.

My point about what evidence would be accepted for an old earth is because every piece of evidence out there, which is overwhelming (whether it's radio isotope dating, astronomical measurements- which I think are overwhelming) the YE creationists like Ken Ham always discount the evidence. So I am not sure what evidence would convince him. All he would have to say is that he doesn't accept the evidence.

All that being said, I DO NOT believe in macroevolution. An ancient earth does not solve that problem. There still isn't enough time.


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Todd

 2016/5/3 9:43Profile









 Re:

The important question is not HOW much older than 6 thousand years the earth is. The question is was it made ( original creation ) 6 thousand years ago or was it re- newed ( resurrected ) 6 thousand years ago.

marcmc

 2016/5/3 9:59
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Even if the argument is that the earth was "recreated" 6000 years ago it still looks older than that to me.

And I am not sure if gap theory applies just to the earth or to the entire universe.


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Todd

 2016/5/3 11:34Profile









 Re:

Renewed, reclaimed, resurrected, are all good words for what God did. The planet and Cosmo belong to God, He has had stewards whom He gave dominion but to them He never gave ownership. Among other things this is why the deeds of the body are accountable to Him, because Adams body came from the ground and God owns the ground ( dirt ).

The planet is still going to be renewed one more time and at that point it will be perfect. You must understand that when the earth was renewed for His redemption plan it was simply made good, this was all that was needed for the Adamic epoch. The scares from its prior age remained, mountain ranges, faults, continental shift, scares from ice ages and millions of buried dinosaurs.

Evolutionists have placed the prior age in the millions because that's what they need for their theory. I don't say it had to be that long, it could have been a few thousand and then a castastrophic event occurred ( I believe it was Lucifers rebellion ) which released the effect of sin in the earth resulting in the death of all life here. because no matter how you slice it you have to account for the death of prehistoric life and God causing it or not protecting it is simply rediculous He is light and in Him their is no darkness!



Marc mc

 2016/5/4 10:05
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Why would Satans fall affect the earth- or are you saying it affected the whole universe.


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Todd

 2016/5/4 11:10Profile









 Re:

Why would God have cast him down to the earth? Jesus said he saw Satan fall like lightning. To where? When God ask him where he had been in Job what did Satan say? He said he was on the earth walking to and fro, and notice the arrogance he said it with.

The stewardship of Lucifer was in preparation for man and this earth is central to that, he rebelled against his position when he was made aware that the angelic realm was really a servants position and instead of him being the top of all he was really the top servant and was cast down to the earth. When he was he brought sin and death with him and this cosmos was ruined either instantly or over a period of time wiping out all life and the order it had been operating in just as Adams rebellion would years later.

God came and renewed order to the chaos in six days explaining why Satan and the fallen angels have been here since day one.

Marc mc

 2016/5/4 11:48
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

I'll take your word for it that that is what gap theory holds.

However I must say that the scriptural support for the rest of your statement is thin or non-existent. But that may be the topic for another discussion.


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Todd

 2016/5/4 12:05Profile





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