I have to say that I find the title of this thread a bit provocative and disturbing.

Though the majority of the content I did not find to reflect the title.

RE: ///The “all Israel that is saved” does not apply to all Jews throughout history, nor can it apply to a select favored group who become instant believers at the end of history, when Jesus Christ comes crashing down through the sky. By that time, it is too late to believe.
This selective, instantaneous, sovereign salvation denies the blood of Christ and salvation by faith.///

My understanding is that most here are believing that the nation of Israel will get a chance simmilar to that of Thomas, I believe that they are using Zechariah 12:10, Revelation 1:7 etc.
I do not see this as the case, but to insinuate that all those whom intelectually believe this, are following a false Christ, I feel is a bit overboard.

Lets remember "we see through a glass, darkly"

/This selective, instantaneous, sovereign salvation denies the blood of Christ and salvation by faith. It clearly is another Jesus and the fables that Peter talked about./

You might have prefaced these untrue remarks with something like, "In my opinion..."

If only the teaching did indeed deny the blood of Christ and salvation by faith.

Since it does employ the saving work of Christ it can't be another Jesus nor a false salvation.

Back to the homework room obviously needed I would think. The misunderstanding here, whether deliberate or not, is pretty astounding.

Peace.

_________________
David Winter

Yeah, I would like to change the title, too. I have not been comfortable with it. In reflection, I admit it is too provocative. Any ideas?

I will change it to, "Some questions about the Millennium"

You still didn't answer my question/s Julius? Let me try again (cause your accusations of my, or anyone who believes like I do, as having received a false Gospel, a false Christ, & a false salvation are not "a small thing" friend. Please read and answer this question:


your post BEGS THE QUESTION, since you said yourself the following below:

"The Jesus that is taught by premillenialists is a Jesus that I do not know neither is it a "voice" that I am familiar with.

John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the VOICE of strangers."

Besides the extremely bad exegesis & use of scripture repeatedly out of its context again (& conjecture what "Paul was dealing with" in addition to what the whole scripturally stated point of Galatians and elsewhere really is), I have a question: if "it's another voice of a stranger that the sheep don't follow" (that would be a damnable heresy claim friend), but you said yourself YOU USED TO BE A DISPENSATIONALIST, were you not saved then? If you were, why did you follow the wrong voice (using your own construct)? So which is it friend?

PP, political, ethnic salvation is a false gospel message.

Ancient Rabbinism is being used in premillenialism. Jesus rejected the idea of setting up an earthly kingdom.

Christ's kingdom on earth is spiritual in character not political and it is not the true Jesus who will wipe out carnal enemies of a particular ethnic group.

But come to think of it maybe I shouldn't use the word ethnic since Jews are of all ethnic backgrounds, but I can say religious group since many are not religious. So, I must use nationalistic group.

Let me rephrase now. If a "Christ" comes, who is responsible for influencing the destruction of nationalistic Israel's carnal enemies, then it is a false Christ.

This explains what I mean by false gospel and false Christ. I'm not saying the brothers participating in this thread believe in a false Christ. Sorry, if I communicated that. Though, they may unwittingly be preaching and teaching things that Christ already rejected when He came the first time.

Jeff, I answered your question. You missed it.

I don't Julius ,you just don't make sense to me ,respectfully..

The idea of a partial hardening upon the Jewish hearts resulted , in only few being saved ,while the Harding is taken place ,and at a date in the future ,which will be at a time when the fullness has come ,the bible Cleary says there will be no more partial Harding ,which hensforth will result in the the hearts of the whole tribe of Jacob have soft hearts which will result in a general nation wide revivle at that time paul quotes ,in that context with the flow of context being a time in the future when the fullness of the Gentiles has come ,that then Jesus will return and turn their hearts away from ungodliness , they will look on him who they pearesd,and know the mistake they made, and realise that Jesus was the Christ ,and in a general way all will be saved ......

I didn't get that from reading commantarys, I've never really read any ..

So I don't no what they say about it ,but ,that just reading it at face value rather they let some eschatology shape the scripture .......
I'm bowing out of this ,honestly can't be bothered talking about this any more ,

Blessings

Here are some other questions surrounding the "Millenium" that I have.

If you are a premillenialist, whether dispensational or not how do you answer these important questions?

1. Does this belief system propose that physical death will continue to exist beyond the time of Christ's second coming?

2. Does this system believe that the natural creation will continue, beyond the time of Christ's second coming, to be subjected to the curse imposed by the Fall of man?

3. Does this system believe that the New Heavens and New Earth will not be introduced until 1,000 years following the return of Christ?

4. Does this system believe unbelieving men and women will still have the opportunity to come to saving faith in Christ for at least 1,000 years following His return?

5. Does this system believe that unbelievers will not be finally resurrected until at least 1,000 years following the return of Christ?

6. Does this system believe that unbelievers will not be finally judged and cast into eternal punishment until at least 1,000 years following the return of Christ?

It seems to me that sin in the lives of God's people, corruption of the natural creation, and the experience of physical death would terminate upon the appearance of Jesus Christ. And that the resurrection of the body, and the final judgment, would commence?

Honestly, brother, I don't know all the answer to your question regarding tjhe future reign of Christ, but I believe that the Bible has plentitude of references to it:

Psalms 22:27-29 (KJV)
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

Psalms 86:9 (KJV)  All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.

Psalms 102:13-16 (KJV)
13 Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.
14 For thy servants take pleasure in her stones, and favour the dust thereof.
15 So the heathen shall fear the name of the LORD, and all the kings of the earth thy glory.
16 When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory.

I recommend listening to Art Katz, "Theocratic Kingdom" sermon