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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Why are Jewish believers so important? Dr. Michael L. Brown

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And, as a side note, the very interesting thing about my dream last night relating to this whole discussion (some of you may give no value to dreams either or cut those passages/pages out of your Bibles too - OT & NT) was that by my father's side, with His help, & with his constant encouragement to do it calmly, meekly, graciously as I can while not holding back the truth he taught me on the matter, I was correcting a group of young kids who were walking & holding up "Feel the Bern" Bernie Sanders signs.

I was telling them to go back, study, & look at the fruit of historical Marxism/socialism on economies, society, believers, etc. They would have none of it. In their newfound youthful zeal, they knew nothing of history (nor did they care), but they were "all pumped up" with their rhetoric, all the smooth sayings that fed to their pride & greed, & had not one ounce of humility to hear anything from anyone, even someone older or more studied in the matter. They wanted socialism & they wanted it now, & they would have to see the end of the fruits of such a system for themselves (always tragic in history eventually once it plays all the way out & it shows its real face).

But my "father" with me just put His hand on my back, said "be calm son". They will have to see for themselves. Tell them the truth as I have shown you in what I wrote down & pray for them.

Mock if you want, but I'm certain this relates to this discussion & this thread subject.
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/4/7 9:23









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Jeff

Good post

You said:
"If people are choosing to not want to look squarely & honestly at ALL the scriptures, in context, & have been reading every replacement theology website there is, & have chosen to buy into it full-bore with no openness to looking at ALL of the things God says in His Word in their full context, then what good is the discussion as a whole?"

There is a dark, dark spirit that some of these people have given themselves over too and that is why they cannot see what the Spirit speaks clearly through his Word.
It's is as bad as Catholics, Mormons etc as too the spiritual dark cloud they have put themselves under. No reasoning from the scripture will help as we are learning until they repent.

 2016/4/7 9:33
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

///....increasingly amped up on this forum towards the Jews, of which I am one////

It should be remembered that markuskiwi is also of Jewish decent.

The Gentiles did not replace the Jews !!!!!
add: (no one in this forum as indicated otherwise)

There have always been wounderful Christians that are of Jewish decent within the Church !!!!








 2016/4/7 9:34Profile









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Quote:
There is zero justification for despising any people group in the world especially the Jewish people who the Lord clearly says He has end times purposes in his plan in redeeming people from every tribe, tongue and nation.

Towards personal attacks in this thread, saints please desist from doing this as it only shames Christ and others who are bought by the blood of our Lord. Differences of thinking are rampant in American Christianity and many confusing doctrines are being embraced by saints who are redeemed. we must in love look at each other, bear patiently with each other and not personally attack or accuse each other.



Hi Greg,
I certainly agree there is "zero justification for despising any people group in the world". Just to be clear, you don't see anyone here despising any people group, do you? There are some posters being despised (no justification for that, either), which you are addressing, but do you see anyone despising a people group outside of SI?

It is disingenuous for some to say others despise Jewish people just because they don't see in the Scriptures that Jesus is going to set up a physical kingdom. That is a low blow and false accusation as I know you will agree. And they also try to make the accusation stick that others believe Gentiles have replaced Jews in the Church, which is equally false. But, they persist in trying to make that label stick. Thank you for trying to stop those attacks.

Quote:
So we must realize that it is only because of their unbelief and rejecting the revelation of Messiah that we have now the opportunity to belief so easily in the Lord. And that in the end their people group will again receive the Lord, perhaps not fully but the Scriptures call it a raising up again from the dead (Romans 11).



Amen!

 2016/4/7 11:09









 Re:

oh Julius....

 2016/4/7 12:18
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Quote:"Another misperception many believers harbor is that Jewish People not believing in Christ reject the Gospel because of their own stubbornness or contempt for Christianity, but Brown says that their aversion to salvation through the Savior was written about thousands of years ago in the pages of Scripture.

“Paul explains that the great bulk of the nation remains hardened and outside of the Messiah (and therefore lost), but that hardening is only ‘in part,’ meaning, it is not for all the people (there is always a remnant that believes) and it is not for all time,” Brown asserts. “As he writes, ‘Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in’ (Rom. 11:25).”
-------------------
Is Dr Brown (who I really like) saying here that it is not Jewish people's "fault" for not believing the gospel because God has hardened their hearts over the past 2000 years?

If this is what he is saying, then millions of Jews have gone to hell because God hardened their hearts. Sorry, but that seems repellent to me.

Please help me understand this.


_________________
Todd

 2016/4/7 15:31Profile









 Re:

TMK,
Let me ask you a question:

When it says in Exodus "And God hardened Pharoah's heart", what does that mean to you?
God Bless,
Jeff

Or for that matter how do you interpret what Paul himself is saying that Romans 11?

I think a rereading of Romans 7 answers these questions pretty plainly unless we explain them away, change their meaning, etc.

 2016/4/7 16:12









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Jeff

What this suggests to me is that God allowed Pharaoh to harden his heart without divine intervention. God gave him what he wanted without any counter measure or grace to repent.

Thats my infallible take anyway.

 2016/4/7 17:23









 Re:

Rev,
Thanks for sharing. However we see or define it specifically & individually, if we apply it to God hardening Pharoah's heart, then wouldn't it hold true that we should apply it very similarly to "a partial hardening" upon Israel for a time that Paul spoke of in Romans 11? That's my point.
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/4/7 17:38









 Re:

Jeff

We both know when applying the scriptures to Israel we are to always take
it literally in a figurative and purely spiritual sense.. This will clarify
all confusion you may have.

For example Romans 11 is really referring to something other that what it is saying.
Please replace Jews, Israel, Abraham etc with the word church saints, christians etc. when reading such passages, This will at first seem confusing but believe me the light will dawn, the sun will rise and ..........

 2016/4/7 18:14





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