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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Mortifying. Desires

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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Excellent point, J.


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Todd

 2016/3/30 14:31Profile
elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

Hi Julius,


Maybe we mean the same thing but use different terms. To be a disciple of Jesus we are called to deny ourselves and pick up our cross and follow the Lord. It means to crucify the old adamic self, so that not my old self but Christ will live in me. Our old man has already been crucified on the Cross with Jesus but from the experimential point of view we need to appropriate by faith that truth and put on Christ daily.


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Redi

 2016/3/30 16:04Profile









 Re:

I am sure just like a gem with many facets, we are saying the same thing but showing different facets of the same gem. Salvation is certainly like a gem with many facets and it is always good to see the gem from many sides. Gives you a fuller, more balanced picture of the truth.

 2016/3/30 16:09
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

To be fair Julius , we all have rules to follow is some thing we all do to inhance our walk with God ,,some people like wilkinson do not watch tv ,some people do not take a drop of alcohol and so on ,some people like washer do not go to the mall, some don't gamble at all ,,al these are rules like not eating fine foods and not take the easy comfortable way out ,,,and men would argue that it is because they love God they do these things ,and to be honest this may have nothing to do the outward amperence ,but striving for inner peace ,unless you've read what these men like John of the cross teach then your obviously misinterpreting their goal and reasons for doing what they do generally speaking ......

We all no about mortafing the flesh and its passions and desires ,,what they seem to teaching ,is an extreamly heigh level f mortification ,,,and if tozer is wright about these men being godly and correct ,then we are all wrong and falling far short of a deep and perfect union with God ,



I know when we fast and pray for certaint seasons ,we up the anti but it seems as if some of these saints press in so much harder ...

Now that's if there are speaking truth about acteacisim ,and if tozer is right about them ,,,,,,,


Or they are just deceived by the Devil ,, or we are for wanting to play church and talking about God all the time in stead ...

 2016/3/31 1:26Profile









 Re:

I would have to agree with the argument that asceticism is not the way. It's like suffering/persecution: we are not seek it out! But we are to "choose" it. In other words, we are not to run away from suffering, loss, persecution at the expense of the Gospel & carrying our cross. But we are also not to "seek it out" as some self-denying masochistic self-inflicted suffering either. This is the monk/monestary mentality of Ghandi, the Buddhist monks, the Amish, etc.

So one extreme is to refuse to embrace a cross of suffering the Lord has given us when faced with that choice for His Names sake. The other extreme is to go out & look for crosses to pick up & bear as burdens the Lord never even called/requires us to (asceticism). Both are unbalanced & unscriptural I believe.

Go out in joy & freedom (not to sin, but from sin) & be willing to take whatever cross the Lord calls us to bear for His sake. This is the balanced view of the New Testament in carrying the cross & being His disciple.

 2016/3/31 10:00
elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

John of the Cross is not teaching ascetism, he was a Carmelite monk who had a great love for God and men and he talks about this perfect love and how to reach perfect union with Jesus Christ. What he teaches is called mystic theology and the goal of that theology is the maturing and perfecting of the saints in Christ, in holiness and agape love.

In his writings he talks about the way of holiness and spiritual progress, or different stages that we go thru, till we reach that spiritual manhood and maturity of character.


_________________
Redi

 2016/3/31 12:31Profile









 Re:

Maybe semantics here, but what he is describing "if there are two choices, a good one & a bad one, choose the bad one" is by definition asceticism. Clear as day. We don't achieve greater spiritual maturity by choosing hot dogs over steak. Unless the Lord specifically makes that a choice for us individually & there's some benefit we are foregoing for the sake of Christ or others. Call it monastic theology or whatever you'd like, but that line of thinking is clearly asceticism. I don't see monks among the apostles or explained in the scriptures/epistles. Sorry, I just don't.

The scriptures are clear that If these things are a personal Conviction (eat not, taste not, touch not), that's fine, but teaching them as doctrines imposing them on others as "the way to holiness" is asceticism (& a form of legalism).

 2016/3/31 13:47









 Re:

Very well stated, Jeff.

 2016/3/31 14:35
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

So with w hen I tell another Christian he should get rid of his tv , ,or stop drinking ,for his own good ,and spiritual maturity,that's legalism ,,,,,Hmmmm.

Now know one is forcing them to not watch , not seeking justification through not watching ... Just incouraging... Get my point ,,....


It not legalism because it's jot forced upon another .....


But don't worry ,,I don't see the teaching of Christ or the apostals ,teaching mystasism

 2016/3/31 14:54Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

But I also don't see the bible forbid it either .....which poses another issue.....

 2016/3/31 15:14Profile





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