I was going over some writings of John of the cross ,I would like to get some feed back ,and weather you agree with this. It came from the the ascent of mtCarmel..................



5. For the mortifying and calming of the four natural passions, which are joy, hope, fear and grief, from the concord and pacification whereof come these and other blessings, the counsels here following are of the greatest help, and of great merit, and the source of great virtues.

6. Strive always to prefer, not that which is easiest, but that which is most difficult;

Not that which is most delectable, but that which is most unpleasing;

Not that which gives most pleasure, but rather that which gives least;

Not that which is restful, but that which is wearisome;

Not that which is consolation, but rather that which is disconsolateness;

Not that which is greatest, but that which is least;

Not that which is loftiest and most precious, but that which is lowest and most despised;

Not that which is197 a desire for anything, but that which is a desire for nothing;

Strive to go about seeking not the best of temporal things, but the worst.

Strive thus to desire to enter into complete detachment and emptiness and poverty, with respect to everything that is in the world, for Christ’s sake.

7. And it is meet that the soul embrace these acts with all its heart and strive to subdue its will thereto. For, if it perform them with its heart, it will very quickly come to find in them great delight and consolation, and to act with order and discretion.

Hi Gary,

Jesus makes it much simpler. He says, love Me with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and He gives us His Spirit (rather than detailed rules) to lead us and guide us as to how to love Him and walk with Him.

The thing about adopting men's rules is that it's like weight lifting, you are always looking in the mirror to see how YOU are developing and invariably you begin to look at others with the same critical eye, thinking they should be doing the same thing because it is making your outside man look good. If we walked in love with the Lord and towards others, then we don't even think about this stuff, we are too busy concentrating on Him.

Better to concentrate more on what is inside the cup than what the cup looks like. The substance is much better than the form.

I don't even know what those statements mean. It sounds like a miserable life to me.

Should I turn my garden with a hand trowel rather than a spade? It would definitely be more wearisome. Should I eat liver (yuck) rather than chicken because it will bring me less pleasure?

I don't see any indication in scripture that our lives are supposed to be miserable.

_________________
Todd

Double post.

Amen TMK,

Our life with God is about heart attitudes and Paul shows us the balance.

Philippians 4:11-14
Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

For if we are to live, we must use the necessary supports of life; nor can we even shun those things which seem more subservient to delight than to necessity. We must therefore observe a mean, that we may use them with a pure conscience, whether for necessity or for pleasure. This the Lord prescribes by his word, when he tells us that to his people the present life is a kind of pilgrimage by which they hasten to the heavenly kingdom.

If we are only to pass through the earth, there can be no doubt that we are to use its blessings only in so far as they assist our progress, rather than retard it. Accordingly, Paul, not without cause, admonishes us to use this world without abusing it, and to buy possessions as if we were selling them, (1 Cor. 7:30, 31.) But as this is a slippery place, and there is great danger of falling on either side, let us fix our feet where we can stand safely.

There have been some good and holy men who, when they saw intemperance and luxury perpetually carried to excess, if not strictly curbed, and were desirous to correct so pernicious an evil, imagined that there was no other method than to allow man to use corporeal goods only in so far as they were necessaries: a counsel pious indeed, but unnecessarily austere; for it does the very dangerous thing of binding consciences in closer fetters than those in which they are bound by the word of God.

Moreover, necessity, according to them, was abstinence from every thing which could be wanted, so that they held it scarcely lawful to make any addition to bread and water. Others were still more austere, as is related of Cratetes the Theban, who threw his riches into the sea, because he thought, that unless he destroyed them they would destroy him.

Many also in the present day, while they seek a pretext for carnal intemperance in the use of external things, and at the same time would pave the way for licentiousness, assume for granted, what I by no means concede, that this liberty is not to be restrained by any modification, but that it is to be left to every man’s conscience to use them as far as he thinks lawful. I indeed confess that here consciences neither can nor ought to be bound by fixed and definite laws; but that Scripture having laid down general rules for the legitimate uses we should keep within the limits which they prescribe.

Let this be our principle, that we err not in the use of the gifts of Providence when we refer them to the end for which their author made and destined them, since he created them for our good, and not for our destruction. No man will keep the true path better than he who shall have this end carefully in view.

Now then, if we consider for what end he created food, we shall find that he consulted not only for our necessity, but also for our enjoyment and delight. Thus, in clothing, the end was, in addition to necessity, comeliness and honour; and in herbs, fruits, and trees, besides their various uses, gracefulness of appearance and sweetness of smell. Were it not so, the Prophet would not enumerate among the mercies of God “wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine,” (Ps. civ. 15.)

The Scriptures would not everywhere mention, in commendation of his benignity, that he had given such things to men. The natural qualities of things themselves demonstrate to what end, and how far, they may be lawfully enjoyed. Has the Lord adorned flowers with all the beauty which spontaneously presents itself to the eye, and the sweet odour which delights the sense of smell, and shall it be unlawful for us to enjoy that beauty and this odour? What? Has he not so distinguished colours as to make some more agreeable than others? Has he not given qualities to gold and silver, ivory and marble, thereby rendering them precious above other metals or stones? In short, has he not given many things a value without having any necessary use?

Have done, then, with that inhuman philosophy which, in allowing no use of the creatures but for necessity, not only maliciously deprives us of the lawful fruit of the divine beneficence, but cannot be realised without depriving man of all his senses, and reducing him to a block.

But, on the other hand, let us with no less care guard against the lusts of the flesh, which, if not kept in order, break through all bounds, and are, as I have said, advocated by those who, under pretence of liberty, allow themselves every sort of license. John C.

That's a great post, Savannah.

Your post shows that there are always two extremes of the spectrum, and yet, there is always a balance in the many aspects of the Christian life.

For spirit-filled men, still living in an earthly temple, it can be difficult at times to find the balance, but God is faithful and will lead us into all truth.

A man who knew the Lord quite well, wrote this:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Thanks Gary. John never taught asceticism but he knew how easily we become apathetic and how useful it is to keep ourselves awake and centred on Christ alone waiting for Him to deliver us from the flesh so that we can walk as He walked.

Comfort is our enemy.

I believe that God gave things to use as a condolence to those who do not seek Him first. To the others the world means nothing.

Mortification of selfishness, self-will, self-pleasure, self-confidence and of every deed of the flesh is something necessary in our spiritual growth in grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ. Paul said to crucify the flesh with its passions and desires, that's the only way to live in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

_________________
Redi

Yes, elected. Isn't it wonderful that as we sow to the Spirit, walking in love and keeping our eyes on Jesus that the lusts of the flesh will not be fulfilled? In effect, by walking after the spirit, we accomplish many other things. How wise is our God!!

The order is important.

Sow to the Spirit and you won't fulfill the desires of the flesh.

Not, "mortify the flesh and you will be walking after the spirit."Not usually true, because our emphasis in on ourselves and not the Lord.