In churches today therenis a lack of balance about fruit of the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit. Also you rarely here preachers talk about true biblical holiness, which is indispensable in the life of the believer.

What are your thoughts about biblical holiness, do you see it as a crises or process or both? What about love, do you think that we can be enabled to love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves? The reason I'm asking this question is that there are those believers who because they believe in total depravity think that in this life we won't be delivered from original sin or sinful nature and this way we won't be able to love God as He commands on the Bible.

My last question is about spiritual gifts that has been described in 1 Corinthians 12-14 chapters, these gifts have been exaggerated or abused often in the pentecostal or charismatic movements and it has passed other believers on the opposite side to become cessationist who believe that those supernatural gifts have ceased after the apostolic age.
I don't believe the cessationists have any solid biblical argument or any solid argument even from the history of the Church. The supernatural gifts have been manifested in the body of Christ throughout the history of the Church.

My reason of talking about holiness, love and spiritual gifts iis for the purpose of encouraging each other, not for argument sake or for debating. Many Christians are afraid of holiness or don't really understand it in practical terms but as the author of Hebrews said: Without holiness no one will see the Lord. And Paul said that love is the greatest, so talking about these subjects is very important for us as Christians.


Blessings in Christ,

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Redi

Perhaps an initial question is whether a person can exhibit the spiritual gifts and not walk in holiness, and if so, why that may be.

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Todd

I would say holiness is lacking but there has been books on the Holy Spirit in abundance ,
When people say that the church does not talk about a given subject it is a hard thing to disprove or prove as working iin the Christian bookshop formally.
To prove that the church does not talk about an issue say such as Israel I could show you many popular books both for and against. I would say the books on Israel are say more bestseller than say the ones against.

The top bestsellers in the Christian world tend to be either vison casting leaders , the word of faith of movement

If we would to say the books that sell less are commentaries as the church desperately needs people who handle the word of God and history on there knees

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Dominic Shiells

History has been called "His Story".

Okay. Just my two cents worth.:)

Brother Blaine

Hi Todd,

I know from personal experience how focusing on spiritual gifts can lead you astray when you don't have spiritual maturity or spiritual counsel from brothers who are mature in faith. Even honesty is not a guarantee that we will not be let astray. How many millions of believers profess baptism with the Holy Spirit, speak in unknown tongues and yet don't show any hunger or thirst for righteousness or holiness?

Charismatic experiences often lack spiritual discernment. Discerning the spirits its a gift in the Body of Christ exercised for the purpose to test and discern the spirits. But where are those godly men in these movements who show the congregations when strange fire has fallen or unholy spirit is leading Christians astray? These voices are rare.

A true mark of a genuine spiritual awakening in the local church is that it will exalt Christ and bring people to genuine repentance, confession and the fruit will be holiness.


Edited

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Redi

I certainly agree that ideally holiness would be the norm.

But my question is whether a person may operate in the legitimate (not counterfeit) spiritual gifts and not necessarily be living holy lives? I personally think it is possible; what I am not clear about is why God would allow this if holiness is so vital.

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Todd

Thank you for this post and bringing up these issues that should be important to us all.

I agree that there is a lack of balance in the area of holiness, the fruit and gifts of the Spirit in most of the Body of Christ. One of the main reasons for this is that there are few churches that are teaching the whole council of God.

In many of the Charismatic Churches there is an overemphasis on the spiritual gifts, while holiness and the fruit of the Spirit are not emphasized enough.

In many of the non Charismatic churches there is priority given to the fruit of the Spirit but little or no emphasis on the Baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Sanctification is both instantaneous and progressive. From God's perspective, we are sanctified, justified, and in Christ at our initial salvation. Even with all of the faults and carnality in the Church at Corinth, the Apostle Paul is writing his epistle to them that are "sanctified in Christ Jesus."

Sanctification is also a process that will continue for the rest of our lives. God's purpose for us as sons of God is to grow in grace, becoming more and more like Christ, and this is a life long process. However, we should never believe the lie that we have to sin every day. We have been set free from sin. God has made it possible for us to live a holy and sanctified life. Christ is living in us and desires to live His life through us. We are growing and maturing as we abide in Christ and put on His righteousness.

We also need the power of God in our lives that comes through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. We have all been called to a ministry, and every believer has been given one or more spiritual gifts for the edification of the Body.

God desires that His Church would do the same works that Christ did on the earth, and even greater works. This is speaking of a corporate anointing that the Body of Christ should be walking in.

There are some in the Body of Christ that are still being used in spiritual gifts but are not living holy lives. This should not be going on, and it brings much harm to the Church of the living God.

"For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." (Romans 11:29).

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:21-23).

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Mike

I wonder myself if we can exercise spiritual gifts without love? In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul alludes to the possibility of possessing the gifts of the Spirit and not having love. Love is a fruit of the Spirit and to have it we need to be in personal relationship with Jesus. Genuine love of God cannot be poured out on us by the Holy Spirit unless we repent of our sins and believe Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Many who did miracles and healings in Jesus name will not go to heaven because Jesus never new them. It seemed to me God can allow those gifts to be exercised by persons who are not sanctified or who don't know Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior. Why God allows this I don't know, that's why I mentioned holiness and love with spiritual gifts because we need to pursue more love and long for sanctification, at the same time not neglect to seek spiritual gifts.



For me spiritual wholeness is very important and holiness of heart is spiritual health. I believe that perfect holiness is posibble for us by dying to our old self and puting on our new self which is in the likeness of Christ and by living in the Spirit and by crucifying the flesh with its desires and passions. This way the the Holy Spirit will sanctify us completely: spirit, soul and body. We are the temple of God and this temple needs to be pure and holy so that God's presence can be manifested in our spirit and our life.

There are those believers who believe that we can't be free from indwelling sin or sinful nature but I have noticed the Bible never says anything like that. It says to crucify the flesh and to put on Christ but it does not equals the crucified flesh with indwelling sin. Christ at the Cross has dealt with our sins and sets us free by his blood the moment when we believe Him and confess sins as believers.


Better than using sinful nature which is a theological term that it's not found anywhere in the bible we should use biblical terms like old man, the flesh, sinful flesh etc. The bible shows us the way to be free from this fallen adamic nature, the cross of Jesus is the answer.

I know that I'm talking about three different subjects at the same time like gifts, love and sanctification but I see that we all need these 3 elements in the Body of Christ. Holiness movement emphasized sanctification, charismatic movement emphasizes gifts of the Spirit, and there are those Christians that emphasize agape love but we need to keep things in order and pursue love and long for sanctification first at the same time diligently seek the gifts of the Spirit.

The Bridegroom is coming for his Bride and his Bride needs to prepare herself and get ready. He has given us the Holy Spirit to prepare and to clease us and to perfect holiness in the fear of the Lord. Someone would say that's impossible for the Body of Christ to be wholly sanctified. What is impossible in our sinful flesh it is possible only by faith, by the grace of God, by the Cross, by the Holy Spirit and by Christ himself.

While it would be impossible to have absolute perfection in this life for we know in part but when Jesus comes we will know in full and be perfect like He is, we still need to put on Christ and renew our minds by the Spirit daily so that sin won't be tolerated and temptation would be resisted and as we walk in the light his blood will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And spiritual gifts we need them in the Body of Christ but first we need to experience the love of God and love him with all of our heart and our neighbor as we do ourselves. Love, holiness and spiritual gifts will revolutionize our lives and the world will notice us because we will be like flames of fire burning and shining for the glory of God.

Our local churches will be powerful and Spirit filled when we experience the Spirit of sanctification and are filled with holy love and our witness for Jesus will be powerful. This is my desire and longing and God is reviving my heart and I'm aiming to do something about this holy vision and if I fail I will better fail trying but I dont believe that faith in Jesus will fail me. Each one is called to fulfill his calling and ministry. I gave many years to the flesh in the past and I so regret it, now its about time giving it all to Christ and marching for Him to conquer.


Blessings in Christ,


Edited

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Redi

"I mentioned holiness and love with spiritual gifts because we need to pursue more love and long for sanctification, at the same time not neglect to seek spiritual gifts."

The Apostle Paul commended the Corinthians believers for excelling in the gifts, but then he also pointed out their carnality. Chapter 13 (the love chapter) follows Chapter 12 which explains the gifts of the Spirit.

Without love, we are just making a lot of noise, and creating a lot of smoke. God doesn't give us gifts for our own personal use, but for the Body of Christ, and we must have the glory of God and the love of God foremost in our minds as we operate in the gifts. The gifts of the Spirit are not as we will, but as the Spirit wills. He administers the gifts, and He moves upon the Body to exercise those gifts in love.

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Mike

Brother Mike,

Amen! Amen! Amen!!!!

Tho my words may not be as succinct as yours are, you have expressed very well my understanding of this, even the verses and instances you cited are where I was led when I pondered this thread-

While that doesn't make you/us "right",.. I nonetheless am in agreement with your stated position:)

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Fletcher