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ReceivedText
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Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Is Billy Graham a Universalist??? (see USA Today)

Is Billy Graham a Universalist??

USA Today (5/15/05):

Today, as many fundamentalists and traditionalists refuse to share podiums with people who don't share their exact vision of salvation, Graham opens his events to Christians of every stripe. More than 1,300 Protestant and Catholic churches are sponsoring the June 24-26 event in Flushing Meadow.

"There are a lot of groups that feel a little bit strange around me, because I am inclusive," says Graham, who draws a distinction between "evangelical" — a label often claimed by conservative Protestants — and "evangelism."

"Evangelism is when the Gospel, which is good news, is preached or presented to all people," he says. When his soft, low voice shades deeper and stronger at the word "all," it recalls the deep trumpet tones of his prime.

"If I took sides in all these different divisive areas, I would cut off a great part of the people that I really want to reach. So I've felt that the Lord would have me just present the Gospel" and stay out of politics, he says.

Televangelist Pat Robertson asserts that God has lifted his "hedge of protection" around the judges, legislators and voters who agree with allowing abortion or gay marriage or physician-assisted suicide.

But asked whether God has forsaken America, Graham's answer is fast and firm: "Noooo!" His reply stands on faith.

"The Lord said, 'I will never forsake you.' No matter how sinful we are, how bad we are, God loves us. At least from my point of view, I believe he sent his son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for us because he loves us and he doesn't have any termination to that love."

Sounded to me like he was extending the Lord's promise to the saints to the world as well. Now read this:

Battle Cry (March/April '98):

In a May 31, 1997 interview with ecumenical TV evangelist Robert Schuller, Billy Graham affirmed his agreement with the Roman Catholic position on salvation of those who have never heard the gospel.

Graham responding to Schuller's question about the future of Christianity, said "God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world. They are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven."

This statement directly agrees with the Roman Catholic universal catechism, page 224: para. 847: "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience, those too may achieve eternal salvation."

Thus Roman Catholicism has said that if you never hear about Christ you can be saved by being the best person you can. This directly contradicts Acts 4:12 which says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Jesus, Himself left no doubt: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6.)


So why does Graham even bother if everyone is getting to heaven without Jesus?

Did anyone else know about this????

 2005/5/17 21:53Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: Is Billy Graham a Universalist??? (see USA Today)

Quote:
So why does Graham even bother if everyone is getting to heaven without Jesus?



Why would he bother to be in the calling God has called him into? There was a group of folk outside the stadium in KC with the women wearing head coverings holding in one hand signs declaring Billy Graham to be a false prophet and with the other the hand of their little child. Pathetic sight it was and a grief to all who felt the reproach that came upon Christ!

Billy Graham has Parkinson's Disease and you would do well to pluck out your tongue out before speaking reproach against a man with such a public track record as he has. Pray for him for God's sake!


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/18 8:49Profile
Globachio
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Joined: 2005/4/21
Posts: 20
Baltimore

 Re: Is Billy Graham a Universalist??? (see USA Today)

Quote:

ReceivedText wrote:
Is Billy Graham a Universalist??
Did anyone else know about this????



I'd also heard about it recently. Quite disturbing. Several years ago the man who discipled me (who was a very gentle and sensitive Christian) commented several times that he would have nothing to do with Billy Graham. I think this is why.

The problem is the First Commandment. It's not just not having other gods "before" God, it's also having them "beside" Him.

A few years ago the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod had a struggle with a similar issue when one of their presidents got on a dais with Sikhs, Muslims, Jews, and Romans. Unfortunately the LCMS decided that breaking the First Commandment was okay.

Graham may be a cultural icon, but I also would avoid his ministries. He needs our prayers, not affirmation of his mistakes.


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Kevin

 2005/5/18 12:24Profile
adonaisarmy
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Joined: 2004/5/13
Posts: 36


 Re:

Robert,

Please consider my words carefully, and prayerfully.

Our brother see's error, and is concearned, and is trying to judge it righteously. It is a good thing, we should expose error, and lies and speak of them for what they are, Not cover them up, nore ignore them, or glide over them because of a certain persons global popularity.

Robert you say "Billy Graham has Parkinson's Disease and you would do well to pluck out your tongue out before speaking reproach against a man with such a public track record as he has"

"a man with such a public track record as he has"

This is not good thing. If the world loves him, then i question if he is of the world or not. Because Jesus clearly said:

Luke6:26 "WOE TO YOU! when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets."

All men speaking well of us is not a good sign, especially the public. This tells me there must be some kind of compramise in our life, and our testimony, otherwise the world would hate us.
Just like it hated our Master, and all those who faithfully followed Him, and proclaimed the whole counsel of God.

If the world is loving us, and its suppose to hate us, something is dreadfully wrong!

15:18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19“IF YOU WERE OF THE WORLD, THE WORLD WOULD LOVE ITS OWN. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, THEREFORE THE WORLD HATES YOU."

Jesus says the world loves its own, therefore this proves if the world is loving us, we are in some kind of compramise with it, and we are said to be of it. Those who are not of it, will be hated by it.

john3:19 “And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed."

7:7 “The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil.

Are we testifying that the worlds works are evil, or are we compramising with them, out of fear of man, rather than fear of God. Fear of Man, and compramise with man is Idolatry, and Pride, this is loving the praises of man, rather than God.

Robert, to tell our brother he would do well to remove his tongue before judging another brother that seems to be in blatent compramise, and warning others of its error, well i think this is not good advise. We should not keep our mouths shut, but Proclaim the Truth in love, And Warn of Error, especially in the church.

Robert is your high ohnor, and respect for Mr.Graham, in any way blocking you from seing his error of his ways? We must be careful of this.

On another note, we must be careful to have our facts straight, when we bringing an accusation against someone, especially a minister.

Which is seems our brother has, I have seen the conversation he is quoting on video. I have been quite shocked myself to the great amounts of compramise, with sin that has crept into the church.
May the Lord have mercy upon us, open our eyes to sin and righteousness, and set us ablaze to be a John the baptist, in this perverse generation.

Blessings,
Joshua

 2005/5/18 14:25Profile
Forevidence
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Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 711
Riverside

 Re:

I Just want to shout a huge AMEN!!!! For what our brother Joshua has said and rightly quoted
"WOE TO YOU! when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets."


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Giancarlo

 2005/5/18 15:00Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
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 I'm not so sure

Quote:

Forevidence wrote:
"WOE TO YOU! when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets."



When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him. Proverbs 16:7

So which scripture is the right one here?


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/5/18 15:05Profile
Agent001
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Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re: Gather the Facts [1]

The [i]USA Today[/i] article posted only lists quotes where the author thinks demonstrate Billy Graham's inclusiveness.

The actual context of one of the quote is posted on the next day:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-05-16-graham-edit_x.htm

I only quote the relevant part:

[i]"Political engagement is, of course, their right and not unique to any single faith, but it comes with a cost. As religious leaders become more involved in politics, they risk making religion more a vehicle for exerting power over non-believers than for persuading skeptics to join the faith.

They also invite a sullied image. Politics is inherently messy, controversial, full of awkward compromises and sometimes corrupt. Religion strives for something higher and more permanent.

Graham, who has been associated with every president of recent decades and was once criticized for his closeness to Richard Nixon, seems keenly aware of the dangers. [b]"If I took sides in all these different divisive areas, I would cut off a great part of the people that I really want to reach,"[/b] he says now."[/i]

Not a clue of universalism here. I am almost certain if we look into the actual contexts of the other quotes, allegations of universalism on the part of Billy Graham will be proven wrong.

P.S. The article by Cathy Lynn Grossman (May 15) seems to be taking Graham's words out of context. Thank God, the actual context is cited in the Editorial/Opinion section on the next day titled [i]Evangelism, [b]Outside Politics[/b][/i](May 16). I am very surprised by the poor professionalism and journalism demonstrated by Grossman! It also casts doubt on the other quotes she used -- some of which the actual contexts could not be found on the web at this stage.



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Sam

 2005/5/18 15:33Profile
Tears_of_joy
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Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: Is Billy Graham a Universalist??? (see USA Today)

I did not intend to make a post. And hoped that this thread will stay with zero replies.
RT what is your intention with this thread? What you want to prove?
Firstly, your question "Is Billy Graham a Universalist?" is not supported by your given facts below.

Have you ever read what is Universalist? (I am sure that you know what it is) but have you 'count to ten' before posting this thread and ask yourself, what I am posting?

Few definitions about universalism:

"The teaching that all people will eventually be saved through the universal redemption of Jesus. Some universalists teach that even the devil, after a time of punishment, will be redeemed."

"an understanding of the all-encompassing nature of salvation, including the belief that ultimately all will be saved."

"the theological doctrine that all people will eventually be saved "

"In Christianity, Universalism, Universal reconciliation, or universal salvation, is the doctrine that all people will eventually be saved and go to heaven when they die."

Have you ever heard one single sermon by Billy Graham and heard that he is preaching universalism?

I ask you in the name of Jesus, don't get out of context some quotes and making 'cult' of them. Look at the all life and preaching of this man and then judge him.


 2005/5/18 15:43Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 A tree and its fruit

Quote:

Tears_of_joy wrote:
RT what is your intention with this thread? What you want to prove?

I think our responses are enough proof of what he is trying to prove. :-(

I hope I am thinking incorrectly.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/5/18 15:56Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Robert you say "Billy Graham has Parkinson's Disease and you would do well to pluck out your tongue out before speaking reproach against a man with such a public track record as he has"

"a man with such a public track record as he has"

This is not good thing. If the world loves him, then i question if he is of the world or not. Because Jesus clearly said:

Luke6:26 "WOE TO YOU! when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets."



I understand all too well these passages and am a repentance preacher myself. In no wise do I detract from my statement- as a matter of fact I understated it. Who in good conscience under the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Ghost would malign a man of God in such a way? When the scripture teaches plainly to speak evil of no man. How much more to aid in the misrepresentation of his views by casting him as a Universalist. Is that not bearing false witness against thy neighbor? I don't need to pray to have the good sense not to malign Billy Graham.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/18 15:59Profile





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