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Savannah, what is your question? Is it do we trust God? Then the answer is yes.......bro Frank

 2016/2/12 8:32

Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK


I echo Frank's reply. Yes I do trust God to be who He is and not based on my concept of what is right or wrong.

That said I do not believe the examples you gave imply that God just arbitrarily strikes people dead. Nor does it talk into the discussion of God predestinating (sp?) people arbitrarily to eternal destruction as per the thread from which this ones is an offshoot.

David's son was a judgement of adultery and there is reason to believe that Job's children were indulging in sin (based on his fear). So these are not conclusive proofs of God acting in a random merciless way.

We do ascribe to the view that God alone has the right to give and take life, in a way that no human has that right. In this we submit to His wisdom and authority because without Him we would not have breath of life in us.

For a human being to act in this way (as your illustrations) would be abominable lawlessness. So in that point I agree with you. We cannot 'judge' God on what is good and acceptable among men, or a restriction put on men by God.


 2016/2/12 10:13Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5638


The only problem is that in Job's case a plain reading indicates that God allowed his children to be killed to test Job- not as a judgment on them.

I love the book of Job but I am not fond of the set up and am not 100% convinced it's not a poetic device. Why would God allow satan to "get His goat" so to speak? Does he not know that satan is a liar and accuser? (The answer to that is "yes")


 2016/2/12 10:49Profile

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2077


Frank asks,

"Savannah, what is your question? Is it do we trust God?"

And Frank goes on and answers this question with the unarguably and expected standard answer,

"Then the answer is yes...."

The real question is better stated by romanchog which I've already quoted, but will do so again,

"do we TRUST God to be Who he says He is? Do we even know Who He is?""

I think it was Neil who suggested in that other thread that the book of Job be read through twice. I'd suggest one read very slowly through just those verses from Job chapter 1 which I've quoted in this thread before jumping onboard and hastily attempt to steer this ship.

Bless the Job!

 2016/2/12 11:10Profile

Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 804


Life and death are in God's hands. He can issue out those decrees whenever He wants and it is not considered sin.

Humans do not have that authority in most cases. Now if we're talking about justice, etc, maybe, but just day to day life, no.

If I kill someone, it's generally murder.

We can and should derive doctrine from the character of God, as revealed by the whole of scripture.

 2016/2/12 12:08Profile


God can take life and give it back. Man only has the capacity to take life. God can give life back to Job's children (not in this world). He only ended their existence in this dimension. He still has power and control over their eternal spirits. Same with David's child. God was punishing David, not the child. Most non-Christian men equate God ending someone's life the same as if man ended someone's life. But, there is a big difference since God still has the final, eternal say in a person's life and we don't.

God is Who He is and God does what He does.

We need a proper understanding of God and a proper understanding of Man and without these two, the Scriptures are confusing, irrational and mythical to most people.

Man is never in a position to bring accusations against God. The book of Job teaches us that.

Satan seeks to sift all of us and cannot do anything without God's permission. We also saw that in Peter's life as Jesus gave us some insight into the spiritual realm regarding Peter. Satan was seeking permission from the Lord to "sift" Peter (tempt him, destroy him). God is using Satan towards His own end.

These things are impossible for the natural man to understand.

Here is a brother that spent 7 years answering the Skeptics Annotated Bible if you are interested.

 2016/2/12 13:12

Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 804


Exactly Julius. Well said!

 2016/2/12 13:33Profile


get behind me.

 2016/2/12 13:42


You either trust God or you do not, everything else is trying to figure out how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, pretty standard comment from me. If sophistry were water there would undoubtedly be enough water on the earth to cover the highest mountain............bro Frank

 2016/2/12 15:41

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2077


Here's the related question coming from Paul,

Romans 9:22,23
What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared for glory.

Some claim election is corporate, but here we read of vessels in the plural.

All the answers in regard to the questions are inconsistent.

Example - I quote one,

"God is Who He is and God does what He does...Man is never in a position to bring accusations against God. The book of Job teaches us that."

 2016/2/13 5:24Profile

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