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Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

TMK, we know that God is eternal; He has no beginning and no end. If He dwelt in the realm of time He would have to have had a beginning at one point in time. In other words, in order for Him to be eternal and not to have had any beginning in time He has to dwell outside of time and in the realm of eternity. When we consider the eternality of God I know it gets deep and incomprehensible to our finite minds but we must accept this truth about God, in a sense, as a little child by faith as we do many other things about Him which we do not fully comprehend.


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Oracio

 2016/2/8 20:38Profile









 Re:

TMK,

It speaks volumes to me that Jesus specifically said, "Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels." That coheres with the rest of scripture in my mind.

 2016/2/8 22:40
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

This thought came to mind regarding the prophets Jeremiah and John the Baptist. God told Jeremiah that before he formed him in the womb He knew him and that before he was born He set him apart for His service (Jer.1:5). And we read that John the Baptist was Spirit-filled from his mother’s womb (Lk. 1:15). I’m curious to know how those who don’t believe in predestination would explain that. Why did God save and set apart Jeremiah and John the Baptist before they were born? Did Jeremiah and John the Baptist choose to repent of their sins in their mothers’ wombs? How is it that John the Baptist was Spirit-filled in the womb without repentance on his part? Since infants cannot possibly make the choice to repent, the only reasonable explanation to me is that they were predestined to be saints and prophets based on God’s foreknowledge.


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Oracio

 2016/2/9 18:20Profile









 Re:

It could mean they were predestined to be called and of course they still had to walk their calling out. In fact many are called but few are chosen (presumably because many do not heed the call).

 2016/2/9 18:56
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Good explanation from that perspective Julius, I'll give you that :).


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Oracio

 2016/2/9 19:56Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 801


 Re:

Let's talk about evolution. I don't believe at all that we all originated from some single-cell organism over the course of billions of years because I believe that it is a faulty conclusion taken 1 step further than the evidence allowed. I do believe in micro-evolution. I believe that an island full of horses can eventually become only white if a disease-carrying fly targets only horses with other colors. That has happened and I'd be a fool to deny it because it is documented. But to draw a further conclusion based on what may be is faulty.

In the same sense, I definitely believe in micro-election. Macro-election I am still up in the air about, but the scriptures that we keep pitting against each other seem to suggest both. If that makes any sense.

TMK,

Our definition of good and evil comes from God himself. It is not something we compare God to, but we should compare our definition of good and evil against God and make the necessary adjustments. That's what makes the Christian walk so great! "Keep this in mind from an old man: there's no finality to the Christian life this side of eternity." We always get to grow more. We always get to be conformed more and into the image of Jesus Christ!

 2016/2/10 5:53Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5585
NC, USA

 Re:

O-

Gods in filling of men with the HS was different pre-covenant, right? God did fill men with the HS to endue them for service but in many senses they weren't changed men(eg Samson).

In the new covenant the HS is given freely to all who believe.


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Todd

 2016/2/10 7:33Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5585
NC, USA

 Re:

Havok-

I don't have a problem with macro-election, meaning that God predestined a class of individuals (those who repent and believe) to eternal life.

I just don't buy micro- election - that he does this for individuals.

I certainly agree that our definition of good and evil comes from God. He instilled that in us. Which is why I feel that ascribing actions to God that seem evil must be avoided at all costs.


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Todd

 2016/2/10 7:38Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 801


 Re:

TMK,

I totally made up those terms, so I best define what I mean by them:


Macro-Election - includes the predestination of all people either to heaven or hell (not a class of people, but all people's destinies are determined before the foundation of the world)

Micro-election - predestination of certain individuals to do certain things. ie, John the Baptist, Judas Iscariot, Jeremiah, Adam and Eve, Moses, Pharaoh, etc.

 2016/2/10 9:18Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5585
NC, USA

 Re:

Yeah we were using the term differently- like the term though!


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Todd

 2016/2/10 9:46Profile





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