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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : A Prophetic Word from Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2081


Hi Julius,
I have to be honest Im not sure what your saying or disagreeing with.
You seem to be thinking that I am saying Elijah will put himself higher than Christ which is not what Im saying.I'm saying Christ put himself lower than Elijah and recognised this ministry of preparation for his first coming.
The Prophetic types between Elijah and John prefigure the ultimate Elijah which is not Jesus clearly.
It is not just parallels its more than that.Similar to the way we say that the Old testement Temple structure was a prophetic shadow of a heavenly structure.
Ultimately the only person/people that can defeat Jezebel in the Church is people with the minsitry of Elijah.
As to Pentecost my statement that Pentecost could not happen without John The Baptist still stands as Peter points out if you read the chapter carefully.Their can be no pentecost without John the Baptist and their can be no Pentecost without Jesus either both had to be there for this to happen.This again does not mean that Elijah John or the ultimate Elijah are greater than Jesus it just means that they are fullfilling this unusual ministry of making a way for Christ,making the high paths low and the low paths high to paraphrase.
Once again before Christ return the friend of the bridegroom will make the bride ready for Christ.
And it could be persecution or adversary that will put all the Christians in one camp again
Yours Staff

 2016/1/11 7:34Profile


Ultimately the only person/people that can defeat Jezebel in the Church is people with the minsitry of Elijah.

We just have a difference of opinion, but that is ok.

The source is always Christ and always will be. The Gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church because of who the HEAD is.

There is simply nothing more powerful than the spirit of Christ.

God bless and have a great day.

 2016/1/11 8:24


Revelation 12:10-11

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, Now the salvation, and the power, and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

John 12:24-26

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone, but if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal. If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.

Brethren. Satan is defeated when we hate our lives in this world and love Jesus even more than our life itself. Even if loving Him means that we lose our life. We overcome the evil one. Because we do not renounce Christ and give allegiance to Satan. In the end this is what the enemy wants us to do.

A year ago 21 Coptic believers died on the shores of Tripoli. They died with one name on their lips. That name was Jesus. Not one of those believers renounced their faith in Christ. When you look at the videos of these 21 believers their faces are uncovered looking toward heaven. Those who took the lives of these brothers had their faces covered. I think of the verse out of 2nd Corinthians 3:18 that says we all with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord the spirit. That day it was Jesus that gave the victory. That day Satan lost the battle. Indeed Satan has lost the war. I honestly believe that those of that took the lives of these brothers covered their faces because they could not see the glory of God in the face of these maeryrs. And those who cover their faces purport to represent a true religion. Those that cover their faces represent Satan. Those that cover their faces were defeated that day. Because 21 Coptic believers did not pronounce their faith in Christ. It was Jesus that got the victory that day.

This has always been the history of the martyrs down through the ages. Of those who follow Jesus. From Steohen onward those who did not renounce their faith in Jesus. Even unto death the nartyrs of Christ were the victors. These are the ones who are reigning in heaven now. These are the ones who are victorious in Jesus.

But it is through the blood of the martyrs that the kingdom is advanced. Jesus said unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies it remains alone. But if it dies it bears much fruit. Tertullian said that the blood of the martyr is the seed of the church. We remember the martyrdom of Jim Elliot. Through him and the other five missionaries who were martyred in Ecuador a savage tribe was reached with the gospel of Jesus Christ. With the martyrdom of Stephen the Apostle Paul was reached for the Lord Jesus Christ. And one could say countless thousands and millions were reached for the gospel by the martyrdom of Stephen. The martyrdom of Stephen which resulted in the Apostle Paul's conversion. And through Paul his gospel message which still rings through the pages of the New Testament is resulting in the conversion of many, nany, many untold millions to Jesus.

Brothers and sisters it is only when we take up our cross and deny ourselves. Even hate our lives in this world and love Jesus above all even being faithful to Him unto death. Then we can truly make an impact for the Kingdom of Jesus.

Brothers and sisters who is the man or woman that Satan fears? It is that one who overcomes the evil one by the blood of the Lamb and by their testimony and Jesus and by not loving their lives even unto death.

This is the ultimate victory of the church over the evil one. It will be the persecuted church that comes to the fires of affliction and that will not love their life. It will be the persecuted church that loves Jesus even more.

These are my thoughts as testified by the Holy Spirit out of His Word.


 2016/1/11 13:50

Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 4024


What Bear shared about overcoming by
not loving our lives unto the death is
rarely preached in most churches.
Usually the emphasis is overcoming by
the blood of the Lamb, and the word of
our testimony.

It is only by the grace of God that we
overcome sin, temptation, and persecution.
He that believes that he overcomes through
his own strength and will power will fail

God's grace is sufficient and His strength
is made perfect in our weakness. How
many of us can rejoice in our weakness?

"If you are reproached for the name of
Christ, blessed are you, for the spirit of
glory and of God rests upon you."
(1 Peter 4:14). The greater the persecution
the greater the grace and glory that will
rests upon those that are abiding in Christ.

Christ is the Overcomer, and the one that
is crucified with Christ overcomes by the
life of Christ in Him. " This is the victory
that overcomes the world, even our faith."
(1 John 5:4)


 2016/1/11 15:51Profile

Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2081


Hi Julius,
As I said but il repeat of course its Christ nobody is saying its not but it will be Christ through the Church and the Church will come under the ministry of Elijah a particular move of the Spirit that only happens each time Christ comes to the Earth.Always doing the same thing each time making ready the way for him to come for his Bride,
Peter said to paraphrase it is nessacary to select an appostle to replace Judas.The qualification was that he had to be with them from the ministry of John The Baptist(Elijah) because Peter knew for an out pouring to happen their A:Had to be a full twelve appostles B:Their had to be a full twelve appostles that were baptised by John(to fulfill prophesy)
It is clear that Peter understood the role of Elijah as immediately after this correction was made the outpouring happened.In fact in Acts its the very next line!
Read it for yourself and look at the timing,Yours Staff

 2016/1/11 17:57Profile

Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2081


Hi Bearmaster,
But what is a Marytr?
Billy Graham advanced the kingdom greatly but wasnt Martyred.
Their are times in the kingdom that Stephen dies for the kingdom in his young age and their are times when Billy Lives for the Kingdom into his ripe old age.
The stick the head in the sand view of the end times without looking at the clear pattern ultimately doesnt work in my opinion.We have to look at the word of God to see Gods plan for the Church in the end.Anybody can qoute beautiful Scriptures about Christ that sound correct but Im after giving sound scripture but it wont be answered for the sake of an inaccurate historical view of the end,
Yours Staff

 2016/1/11 18:09Profile


Staff the word martyr in the Greek neans witness. Those who laid down tveir lives for Chriat were the ultimate witnesses for Jesus. And yes Art Katz and Denny Kennuston thiught thy would be nartyred in tveir lifetime. But these dear brothers pasded away due to natural csuses. But did much to advance His kingdom.

But bear in mind these men Billy Graham, Art Katz, and Denny Kennuston lived in Ameroca. The American evangelical church does not have a history of perwecution. Thus nany dear nem and women of God who have an impact for God in America may not be martyred. But that will soon change.

The New Testamest was written sgaibst a back drop of perwecution. It was written by those who were persecuted and martyred for those who were being persecuted and martyred. Evem to this day. Today's perercuted church can better identify with the New Testament than we in Anerica can.

The accurate teaching of the New Testanent, church history, and those who folliw Jesus is that the bride of Christ will go through persecutioj even up until the time of His return. But the pereecuted church will be victorious because He is victorious.

My thiughts.......


 2016/1/11 18:30

Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2081


Hi Bearmaster

Yes we will always have persecution no doubt in all forms not just physical.
When it comes to persecution though the members of SI including Greg(great guy that he is) have a serious wrong attitude and instead of preaching the Gospel are sidetracked with preaching persecution.
Paul said he come to terms with all things times of plenty times of nothing times when they were persecuted and times when they were not(paraphrase)
Come to terms with it is what im saying and move on,if its coming its coming.
Unfortunately we have two types of Church as we see it on the one side this out and out crazy pentecostal hype type(for the most part Christians true brothers and sisters)and on the other side of the coin this dour persecution is coming type(for the most part are true brothers and sisters) both equally having the same problem a problem with grace,
The whole Church will be victorius because he is victorious not the persecuted church,the hype type and the life is dour type.In reality(in Gods eyes) their is no persecuted church or hype church but just one Church.
Jesus will not abandon either end of the spectrum unlike man,
Yours Staff

 2016/1/11 19:54Profile


Dear staff,

I like and agree very much with what you just said!

Christians should be known for their righteousness, peace and joy...and love.

And their overcoming attitude in ALL of life's situations.

Forget about self, think of others and preach the gospel.

 2016/1/11 22:29


Staff, have you ever left home or your home country?
You don't seem to have any idea what the real world looks like.

Quote: "When it comes to persecution though the members of SI including Greg(great guy that he is) have a serious wrong attitude and instead of preaching the Gospel are sidetracked with preaching persecution. "
No one was preaching persecution, but we are allowed to warn each other and post a message for discussion
Who has a seriously wrong attitude here?

Before Christmas we learnt that a Christian family in Norway had their 5 kids taken away, are you also telling them "Come to terms with it is what im saying and move on" ?
Very unloving, uncaring comments from you ! May the Lord help you !

Here is a message for all of us:

May the Lord be near to us as it is getting darker and darker

 2016/1/12 1:15

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