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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri


I guess what I'm asking is does God always speak to us through the words that are on the page? Or does the Holy Spirit speak in other ways? At this point maybe I don't know what I'm asking. Ok thought I would put this out for discussion. Not trying to hijack the thread. But just trying to think through some of the questions this thread has generated in my mind.

Blaine: Your point is well made. God's word is not a purely intellectual treatise meant to be dissected by the mind of man, but rather a living, spiritual letter meant to be interpreted and impressed upon the soul of man by the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

I have seen two extremes. There are those who treat the word of God as if it were simply a treatise for the intellectual. They study it with their own mind rather than by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and they miss it. I have also seen those to whom the written word is merely a loose framework on which they hang all of the impressions they think they get from the Holy Spirit and ultimately wind up with flakey ideas and doctrine that is not sound.

I like a particular Smith Wigglesworth quote. He said that some men study the word of God in the Holy Ghost.

We are told in scripture to study to show ourselves approved, workmen that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. It is our approach to that study that is critical, I think. I have often opened my Bible, pointed to a passage that I do not understand, and asked the Lord if He would please show me what He meant by writing it. Sometimes I have had an immediate response, and sometimes I have waited months or years and then, as I studied another portion of the word had the meaning of the first quickened to me.

But there is immense value in having some understanding of the original languages and of dissecting the grammar. The same can be said of reading anything written in English, but it is especially so when the Bible was translated from other languages to our own. The same can be said for study of the cultural idiosyncrasies of the people to whom God originally gave the word. They wrote from a perspective that we need to understand.

I guess what I am trying to say is that God created our intellect, and when we use that intellect in subjection to His Holy Spirit, He can work through it to cause us to better understand His word to us.


 2015/11/11 8:03Profile

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2763
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Being Spiritually Guided by the Grammar

The "iceberg" in the water is "passivity" misunderstood. There is danger zeroing in, or narrowing the focus of God's initiation and working, to the eclipse or exclusion of our own vital participation.

I just wanted to comment on this portion that I have quoted above because I believe it is the crux of the original post and a point well taken.

I don't believe that God ever demands passivity and this is because He wants us to exercise our own wills actively in cooperation with Him. I think this is shown in verses like, "if any man’s will is to do his will, he shall know...(John 7.17)

It seems that God's way of making us obedient is to work in us through the Holy Spirit in our spirit, He doesn't will in place of us. Is this your understanding of passivity vs vital participation?

In Christ,

Ron Halverson

 2015/11/11 19:25Profile


Another question I would like to add to Ron's question is this?

Our faith receives the activity of Christ in our lives. Without faith we will not be receptive to the Holy Spirit. We will reject rather than receive. Are you viewing faith that "receives" in the passive sense?

 2015/11/11 21:05

Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 692


"The hearing of faith" by which we receive the Holy Spirit involves both the passive and active dynamic. God speaks and the word comes to us and we hear it in a passive sense (the word acts upon us). We then either respond to the word of hearing with faith or unbelief. This is the active dynamic.

Neither hearing nor believing is "unconscious"! Both the passive side of receiving and the active part of believing involve conscious interaction.


Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/11/12 5:34Profile

 I will cause you to walk in My statutes

"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances" (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

So just how does God put His Spirit within you and cause you to walk in His statutes, and you will be careful to observe His ordinances?

 2015/11/12 8:03

Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 692

 Re: I will cause you to walk in My statutes

This is a very good question, may the Lord give us the understanding that we need to have the comprehensive knowledge "epiginosko" that He desires for us.

I believe the scriptures themselves have the best illustration of how God accomplishes this. He stated to the people of Israel that He Himself would drive out the 7 nations of Canaan. He even warned the people of Israel not to think that they had inherited the land by their own strength. Yet, He explained further that "I will give them over into your hands and you must put them to death."

This is similar to how God works in us to will and to do according to His good pleasure. Through the cross, the body of sin was rendered powerless so that we should no longer serve sin. The Lord did this for us, and yet we are partakers in the finishing work in "putting to death our memebers upon the earth." We could never do this without His help, but He has designed our participation into the finishing process. We "through the Spirit" mortify the practices of the body. The Spirit illumines, convicts, and brings the practice to our attention and we co-operate with the Spirit in putting it to death.

Similarly, God through Christ set us free from slavery to sin. He then guides us, even inspires us, to present ourselves back to Him as those who have been raised from death to life. He calls for us to "present our members as instruments of righteousness. He sets us free, and we in our God given freedom, offer ourselves as bondservants.

God condemned sin in the flesh. God through Christ revoked sin's reign over us, but we through the Spirit "put off the old man" that He placed into our hands. The Spirit is there to guide us every step of the way, but we must "keep in step with the Spirit" since we live by Him.

God does will for us to experience everything He spoke through Ezekiel. Yet, He willed for Israel to experience this also, but many in Israel rejected God's will for their life. Luke 7 makes this very clear that the Pharisees rejected God's purpose for them, because they refused to be baptized by John.

God's will may be resisted, the Holy Spirit can be grieved, His work in us can be hindered by our lack of cooperation. The New Testament letters contain strong admonitions for the hearers and or readers to take action, repent, give diligence. All of these admonitions and exhortations are for believers. Their presence is clear indication that the New Testament writers understood the role of the hearer in the completion of the work of faith.

Faith and works are not enemies. Works is the means for perfecting faith.


Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/11/12 10:17Profile


Very good explanation, Mac. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

If no works are produced, faith is merely a dead thing, good for nothing. One who produces no good works proves he has not received (passive) the Lord Jesus and obeyed Him (active), and should not be declared righteous by man.

Works are not only the means for perfecting faith, but the means for the manifestation of faith.

 2015/11/12 10:42

 Re: Rest

This is from Greg's post in NOTHING TO FEAR by David Wilkerson.

"The believer who has unconditional faith in God’s promise enjoys complete rest. What characterizes this rest? A full, complete confidence in God’s Word, and a total dependence on His faithfulness to that Word. Indeed, rest is the evidence of faith."

Here is a quote from David Wilkerson.

"God said, I will put my fear into your hearts that you shall not depart from me because you're under covenant. I'll put my fear in your heart. Don't try to produce it. You just put your hand in mine, you trust my obedience, you trust my righteousness, you just believe, accept my promise. Reach out your hand, lay hold of the covenant. He said, I'll put my fear in your hearts, I will remember your sin no more. I'll write my law on your hearts, I will make you to know me from the greatest even unto the least.

God is saying, I know what you're going through but I made an agreement to be responsible for you. He said, and My Son ratified that covenant with His own blood. He can't break it because the one who made the covenant with the Father is already at the right hand of the Father. It's all finished. He can't lie."

Do you have a full, complete confidence in God’s Word, and a total dependence on His faithfulness to that Word?

 2015/11/12 11:14


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.......John 1:1

He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood and His name is called the Word of God.......Rev. 19:13

Brothers respectfully is the word of God the Bible itself? Or is the Word of God the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God himself?

If we start putting emphasis upon the grammar and the text. Are we not in danger of bibliolitry? Are we not in danger of worshipping the Bible over the Lord Jesus Christ himself?

There are some of those in certain movements who would hold to the trinity of Holy Father, Hoky Son,and Holy Bible. They may not say this directly. But those who would hold to the Bible and the Bible alone deny the reality of the Holy Spirit. The very one who wrote the Scriptures Himself.

Simply my thoughts for reflection.

From the Bear Den.

 2015/11/12 11:36

Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 692


Paul had a wonderful apprehension of grace and his expression shows the dynamic of Christ's part and our part, all within a few sentences.

Here is an example:
II Timothy 1:12 - "....for I know Whom I have believed and have been persuaded that He is able to guard what I have deposited into His care."

II Timothy 1:14 - "Guard the good deposit through the Holy Spirit, the One dwelling in us."

Paul, Peter, and John all used the Greek word "Phulasso" the same word for guard in the two verses in the example. This word is used over and over again in Deuteronomy in combination with "do" - "guard to do". All three of these apostles understood who was guarding them and the importance of the believers guarding what they had been given.

It's not either or - it's both!


Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/11/12 11:37Profile

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