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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Israel, the Church and Eschatology

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 Re:

Oracio,

I earlier distanced myself from Full Preterism, and that was not what this debate was about.

 2015/11/3 13:51
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Yes, unfortunately I will have to agree that Mr. Preston holds to full Preterism (denying the Second Coming of Christ and bodily resurrection of believers), making him a a heretic who should be shunned by believers.


_________________
Oracio

 2015/11/3 13:47Profile









 Re:

Why do you keep using heretics and apostates to support your views?
They do not even believe that Jesus Christ, is the eternal Son of God and Son of man. And he is.
Shame on you.

 2015/11/3 12:58









 Re:

And, I am currently listening to another one which is also very good, so far. Again, I don't necessarily endorse everything each person believes, but to the central issue that we are discussing, they bring out some interesting points, hermeneutically, speaking. These speakers never disparage one another which I find refreshing and kind hearted.

Dr. Brown Debates Dr. Gary DeMar on Israel and the Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJwH7_5QqU

 2015/11/3 12:56









 Re:

Especially this gross heretical Christ denying error:

"Mr. Preston has finally gone on record! Mr. Preston claims Christ Jesus no longer possesses the body of His birth and resurrection. Mr. Preston attempts to downplay the implication of his heresy by qualifying his position as a “physical” body, but this is simply more intellectual dishonesty on his part. Webster’s 1830 definition of the term “body” is, “The frame of an animal; the material substance of an animal, in distinction from the living principle of beasts and soul of man”, “Matter, as opposed to spirit”, “any extended solid substance”. The fact is human bodies are “physical”. Inherent within the concept of a human body is the concept of “physical”. Thus when Dr. Kenneth Gentry points out Paul in, Col 2:8, 9, explains Christ Jesus has His body, Paul is referring to the fact Christ Jesus possesses the human body of His birth and resurrection. If Christ Jesus no longer has the body of His birth and resurrection, He is no longer human."

The implication of Mr. Preston’s view, whether he wants to admit it or not is that the historical Christ Jesus no longer exists. In other words, according to Mr. Preston, Christ Jesus temporally made use of a human body, the incarnation was only temporary! This, of course is essentially the same position held by the second century docetics, “Doceticism refers to the doctrine that the manhood of Christ was apparent not real, that as in some Greek myths, a divine being was dressed up as a man in order to communicate revelations, but was not really involved in the human state…” 1 According to Dr. Roger E. Olson, “…sophisticated doectics held a dualistic Christology that strongly distinguished between “Christ”, a heavenly, spiritual redeemer and “Jesus,” the human taken over by the Christ and used as his instrument for a time on earth.” 2 Indeed, this is the Christ of Mr. Preston, a Christ who no longer possesses the body of His birth and resurrection. The fact of the matter is Mr. Preston is advocating a “sophisticated” heretical view which dates back to the second century. The logical implication is that Christ is no longer the God-man. That is damnable heresy and Criswell knew it and called Preston on it.

 2015/11/3 12:54









 Re:

docs,

They both made some strong points and although I don't agree with everything either of them stand for, I would be interested in hearing what you thought their strong points (and weak points, too) were.

And, I am currently listening to another one which is also very good, so far.

Dr. Brown Debates Dr. Gary DeMar on Israel and the Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJwH7_5QqU

Be blessed.

 2015/11/3 12:52









 Re: Hyperpreterist Don Preston and resurrection denying

Another really bad apple to quote from:

Hyperpreterist Don Preston has for a long time attempted to portray his views within the Evangelical Christian umbrella. However, he understands that his Christological view bares nothing in common with doctrine of Christ Jesus as defined by Scripture and espoused by Evangelical Christianity. Thus, Mr. Preston has not been upfront regarding his doctrine of Christ and normally if brought up seeks to change to a different issue often arguing that there is no relevance with his eschatological view. As a result of Mr. Preston’s less than forthright representation of his views which seems to be carefully word in public, he was invited to a forum of Evangelical Christians held at Criswell College discussing the major millennial views representing the modern Christian Church.

Mr. Preston represented the invitation, as, “the preterist movement has caused the scholarly world to pay attention and to realize that Covenant Eschatology has, to cite Andrew Perriman, “a rightful place at the table” in serious discussions on eschatology, and specifically with regard to the preterist view of “The Millennium”.” However, nothing could have been further from the truth.

When Criswell College learned of Mr. Preston’s Christological views and what he had written above, they requested Mr. Preston remove his claim (see above) which falsely represented the situation. Criswell College advised Mr. Preston that he should retract what he had stated and place the following on his website: “Criswell College does not believe preterism is an academically or biblically defensible position or that it deserves a place at the table. We do recognize that preterism has a following and we believe those followers deserve to know the error of the doctrine with which they are being misled.”

Mr. Preston did amend his claim, but the manner in which he represented Criswell’s position in lieu of his prior claim demonstrates his underhandedness. Mr. Preston’s amendment read, “Make no mistake, we are not suggesting that Criswell Bible College, or any of its faculty are in agreement with or sympathizes with the full preterist view of eschatology.”

No kidding Dishonest Don, everyone knows Evangelical Christians “disagree” with “full” aka hyperpreterism. The point, however, is that the academic institution didn’t believe the view was due a place at the Evangelical table and that was not why Preston was invited in the first place. And had Mr. Preston been forthright about his heretical views regarding the doctrine of Christ Jesus he would have never been invited in the first place. Furthermore, why wasn’t Mr. Preston forthright with the College’s position and with what they requested to be posted? With that, due to the invitation, Criswell was faced with two choices, cancel Mr. Preston’s invite at a very late date or expose him for the heretic he in fact is. Criswell chose the latter path and was successful in securing Mr. Preston’s confession as to his heretical position regarding Christ Jesus to the horror of those attending the debate who are Christians.

Mr. Preston has finally gone on record! Mr. Preston claims Christ Jesus no longer possesses the body of His birth and resurrection. Mr. Preston attempts to downplay the implication of his heresy by qualifying his position as a “physical” body, but this is simply more intellectual dishonesty on his part. Webster’s 1830 definition of the term “body” is, “The frame of an animal; the material substance of an animal, in distinction from the living principle of beasts and soul of man”, “Matter, as opposed to spirit”, “any extended solid substance”. The fact is human bodies are “physical”. Inherent within the concept of a human body is the concept of “physical”. Thus when Dr. Kenneth Gentry points out Paul in, Col 2:8, 9, explains Christ Jesus has His body, Paul is referring to the fact Christ Jesus possesses the human body of His birth and resurrection. If Christ Jesus no longer has the body of His birth and resurrection, He is no longer human.

The implication of Mr. Preston’s view, whether he wants to admit it or not is that the historical Christ Jesus no longer exists. In other words, according to Mr. Preston, Christ Jesus temporally made use of a human body, the incarnation was only temporary! This, of course is essentially the same position held by the second century docetics, “Doceticism refers to the doctrine that the manhood of Christ was apparent not real, that as in some Greek myths, a divine being was dressed up as a man in order to communicate revelations, but was not really involved in the human state…” 1 According to Dr. Roger E. Olson, “…sophisticated doectics held a dualistic Christology that strongly distinguished between “Christ”, a heavenly, spiritual redeemer and “Jesus,” the human taken over by the Christ and used as his instrument for a time on earth.” 2 Indeed, this is the Christ of Mr. Preston, a Christ who no longer possesses the body of His birth and resurrection. The fact of the matter is Mr. Preston is advocating a “sophisticated” heretical view which dates back to the second century. The logical implication is that Christ is no longer the God-man. That is damnable heresy and Criswell knew it and called Preston on it.

Orthodox Evangelical Christianity owes Criswell College a hearty thank you. Criswell College was able to do something no one else within the community has been able to do. That is, they were able to get Mr. Don Preston to go on record regarding his heretical docetic doctrine of Christ, which lies at the core of his heretical “Gnostic like” teachings. Mr. Preston is certainly entitled to his opinion, but he is not entitled to mislead people by skirting the issue hiding the fact he denies a core tenet of Evangelical Christianity as proclaimed by Scripture. Mr. Preston is not entitled to a position at the Evangelical table as he denies a core tenet of Christianity as defined by Scripture. Preston, the word is out about your theology. You are not within the Evangelical and orthodox camp, you are outside of the Church of Jesus Christ. ..."

 2015/11/3 12:50
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


  docs

docs wrote :
///I finally found him. You didn't tell me was a hoot!///


I can not download the youtube so I do not know if you where reffering to Tim Conway the comedian if so he is different from Tim Conway the preacher,

Tim Conway the preacher is kind of running in the same circle as Paul Washer, John Piper etc.

I am able to get the MP3 thank you Oracio.

 2015/11/3 12:46Profile









 Re:

moving on...

Here is an great example of an excellent debate with Dr. Michael Brown and Dr. Don Preston, regarding Israel and the Church and Eschatology. (I decided to rename the thread as this name seems more appropriate).

Dr. Michael Brown and Dr. Don Preston Debate Israel and Eschatology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1fP1xB1gsM

Very insightful comments below the video, also by the listeners (on both sides of the debate).

Also, good example on how they maintained the debate according to hermeneutical principles, only. I definitely learned something in that area, too. :-)

 2015/11/3 12:36
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 Re: Oracio, you didn't tell me Tim Conway was funny

I finally found him. You didn't tell me was a hoot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfTyEtVIe84&list=RDbfTyEtVIe84#t=O


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David Winter

 2015/11/3 8:09Profile





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