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crusader
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Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 410
Australia:

 Psycopaths vs Pharasees

Hi all

I wanted to post tonight in an area which seems to be an area of my life that God brings me into a lot. just a quick briefing for those that don't know some of my past posts, my life before Christ was victimized by a psychopath as i have a brother that is one. in my Job i have dealt with 100's of clients with Anti-social personality disorder and occasionally would come across the odd psychopath.

I was able to recognize these types very quickly due to my past and respond accordingly. for the first time an ex-staff member of mine became a christian and although i had my suspicions that he was a psychopath, i wasn't in a position which exposed this until he started asking me to join his church that he attends. very charismatic and controlling i decided to discuss with him some of the stories he had told me about his life.

Well that rattled the snake and since that time over the last three weeks he has been playing the typical psychopath games targeting me behind closed doors, using unaware Christians as his pawns to discredit me amongst some mutual christian friends. God has kept me safe and given me the words needed at the right time but he is relentless. when looking at pharisees he fits the bill 100% now all about law and no grace, putting others down to get a better seat at the table hates scripture but loves talking about wisdom he learn't from the world.

I decided to step out of his sights as it is very damaging
but that has been bothering me but i think it is more my flesh being drawn into a fight rather then spiritual wisdom.

As we are stepping into a world where narcissism is or has become an epidemic by busting into the gates of the main stream church's for years, it makes me ask the question.

How many Christians today can truly discern modern pharisees and are they challenged in churches

(sincere question as i am looking for modern testimonies in this area)

I know how the bible deals with them but is this happening today? The games these people play are sooo cruel, a close christian friend of mine didn't even see it and yet i would call him a strong brother in Christ. after i raised a few points he then saw it from what he had seen for himself but the light bulb didn't turn on until i raised it.


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karl rashleigh

 2015/10/29 7:38Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3417
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Psycopaths vs Pharasees


Brother,

You need to write a book in this area!

Reading your post, I went to one church when I lived in Ohio. I moved to the bible belt of TN and the churches that I fell in love with (the people) here, I was given the left foot of fellowship.

With the second one, now I believe the pastor was a psychopath. He turned so many people on each other so he could stay on top.

I left that one around 2005-6 and I haven't been to a regular church since, I visit but won't get involved. I believe both of those churches to be what some call "abusive" churches. Would abusive churches be run by psychopaths? That would explain a LOT.

Anyway, I hope to read more from you and others on this in the coming days.

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2015/10/29 8:27Profile
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 Re:

Hi Lisa

Thank you for your post, its interesting that you say that you say that i need to write a book on it because i was thinking that this is where God is going to lead me. I still am meditating on this at the moment and when it becomes complete with biblical understanding and experiences.

today i was writing an email to say that i wont be attending the group but my email would not send the email and it stayed in my outbox. after 3 hours of trying to resend it, i deleted it. tonight i sent another one and just after i sent it, my christian friend said that he wanted me to attend with another father of the faith christian friend as well. so i am now going to the breakfast.

They can be very cruel people, psychopaths depends on their catalysts as children and then they are placed in 3 categories

1. high functioning: extremely intelligent they are normally in positions of power. normally never exposed

2. Medium functioning: Normal IQ use manipulation and lies to gain positions in society. If well trained you can spot these ones.

3. low functioning: low IQ try to manipulate and lie but are not very good at it and tend to move on from place to place as they get exposed easily.


I have been exposed to all 3 but commonly to medium functioning and these tend to be the ones that do the church thing, they know the bible inside and out, dress the part and blend in. I will post up a few tell tail signs of pharisees which helps us to recognize them and to keep safe from their games. recent statistics indicate that 2% of the American population are psychopaths which means if you live in say Canada there is 600,000.00 functioning at anyone time. only a very small amount of them are high functioning.

breakfast is going to be interesting i just have to let God do what he does.


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karl rashleigh

 2015/10/29 10:08Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
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 Re: Psycopaths vs Pharasees

QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________

How many Christians today can truly discern modern pharisees and are they challenged in churches
______________________________________________________________

Good question.

Maybe you need to spell out the characteristics of a good leader lest people get confused. Of course, this could indicate one does not know what you are talking about but make a go of it anyways.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2015/10/29 11:42Profile
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 Re:

Hi All

"spell out the characteristics of a good leader lest people get confused"

In a church setting, a true Christian leader is spirit filled and has become bond servant for Christ. their full intent is to walk in truth, grow in spiritual maturity. They can be at different levels of spiritual maturity depending on the needs of the congregation.

A good leader in a worldly setting: is able to make righteous decisions that are not emotionally compromised but compassionately handled.

I'm not sure if i answered the question correctly, forgive me if i haven't.


this morning i went to the men's breakfast, prayed the whole way looking for answers, i got to admit i was getting anxious. Satan was really trying to while up my flesh with suggesting that i fully blast into biblical law and defeat my enemy in front of everyone but i quickly realized where this was coming from and rebuked the devil and then i heard the Lord trust that i will look after you.

an 80 year old preacher was present and the person in question didn't say a thing and while the old preacher spoke about the bible, this person left the room. It was interesting to watch he avoided any conversation. there was an uneasiness when i first arrived like a silence when people had been talking about you. God guarded my heart and i had a wonderful time learning from this old man who had spent a life time in Christ preaching around the world. in fact while driving home the lord placed such a peace in my heart and a stronger zeal to read the word.


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karl rashleigh

 2015/10/30 5:41Profile
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 Re:

i just wanted to update about my brother from previous posts. he is still a psychopath but i have set very strong boundaries with him so he has no room to move or manipulate our relationship. he has just changed tactics when around me, i still love him though and constantly refer him back to the cross as i see him doing the same things over and over again and doesn't learn from biblical advise.


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karl rashleigh

 2015/10/30 5:46Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Wolves in Sheeps Clothing

Carl, I appreciate seeing this topic addressed. We do well to gain wisdom. I have a few of these folk in my life, and that got me checking this out.

It's becoming a phenomenon of our age. The Bible talks about the seered conscience/hardened heart. I prefer these terms of reference. Modern labels include: corporate sociopath, narcissistic character disorder, etc.

These can be among the "nicest" people around. They can be charming, good looking, and polite. They sound so "wise" because they're masters at copying the lingo from others. They find their way into important positions in society because of their charm. They never work at integrity, but become masters at masquerading (hypocrisy, as you'd say)

Their "fangs" come out "in the night"- when they sense that their cover is exposed. That's why offering advice or confrontation only makes things worse - especially for ourselves. They are never wrong. We become "the problem" and get scapegoated - as you have experienced.

These people don't fit into the usual category of troubled people. They don't feel any trouble, any guilt- but they make misery and hell for those around them.

Yes, these are the ones who wanted Jesus crucified - not surprisingly.

You'll appreciate the work of George Simon - he has some YouTube videos, I think. He offers helpful guidance.

Two Books I highly recommend:
"In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People"
"Character Disturbance: Phenomenon of Our Age"

May God be your victory!
Diane


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Diane

 2015/10/30 11:30Profile
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 Re:

Hi Diane

yes the books you have mentioned are brilliant especially "in sheep's clothing"

Now that you have mentioned it i can continue the post in the reference of "hardend hearts" rather then the worldly references. This is where God led me biblicaly for understanding. the first example that i have been reading about this was pharoah as God says he hardened his heart after each time Moses left. God says as well that he will replace a heart of stone with a heart of flesh. in the gospels where it talks about the 4 heart conditions, one of these is a field that is full of stones which my study has led me to the understanding of stones being unforgiven offences towards people. when spending time talking with my brother it was very strongly evidenced that he had a lot of anger towards Mum and Dad and women in general due to a past incident. I have led him to the understanding that he can not be free until he forgives people in his life and he says he has but i know he hasn't and continues to play his games with women. he wants to hold onto this anger. even the other day he phoned me for advise on how to deal with a female boss that is "treating him unjustly" he went away with advise on what he needs to change but i know that he just agrees but will do things his way.

I suspect that people due to generational sin can be born with hardened hearts as i know he was like this way before he says these incidents occurred in his life that made him hate women in the first place.




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karl rashleigh

 2015/10/30 15:20Profile
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 Re:

There are a lot of parts I disagree with the world’s theory of psychopaths because many of their concepts are not based on the wisdom of the bible, but the observed behavior is what it is. The bible has the complete answers on how to recognize and deal with people that are self-motivated and the more I study these areas in the bible the deeper it goes. The ultimate understanding is Satan’s attitude “I will be” all of us before we are Christians are ruled by some degree of this fleshly nature but as we confess and submit to the power of Jesus Christ, we are transformed and renewed in his likeness and become self-sacrificing

Here are some very basic points that where posted on a web site to expose modern day Pharisees. When I referenced these points against the person who has been coming against me, every one of them is evident in his behaviour. I do believe that they need to be exposed as they will destroy the church and those around them. Many people have fear in dealing with them because they are relentless in their motivations and will do what is necessary to stay unexposed.

1.They believe showing up for worship every Sunday makes you right with God.

2.They spend more time talking about what they are against, not what they are for.

3.They believe God actually needs them.

4.They don’t repent of sin…They don’t have any “serious” sin to repent of.

5.They make every issue black and white.

6.They would never condone homosexuality or fornication…but have no problem watching movies that do.

7.Their salvation is based on their works, not on Jesus.

8.They read the Bible to substantiate their convictions, not to be shaped into God’s image.

9.They believe outsiders should conform to a certain lifestyle before they are accepted as “Christian.”

10.They don’t know the difference between a convert and a transfer

11.All of their Christian friends look and act just like they do.

12.If someone tries to rebuke them, they get angry and offended.

After our breakfast meeting, and the person in question sat silently, I knew that at some point there would be an email by himself to try and regain control. Sure enough 8 hours later, a newer Christian asked if we would be interested in going for a motorbike ride in the next week or so. (Because he is lonely and wants to spend some time with other Christian men) there is a 2 page reply on the legalities of going for a group ride and the negative aspects of not having it fully established as a membership group. Although it sounds right in what he said, his reasoning was once again to establish himself in authority (by knowledge) and be in control of any group activity that he is invited to. No one posted after his email.

So this leads me to “what next”, well he does need to be exposed but how and who I will wait on the Lord. I just want to state that God has only led me into the knowledge of understanding for what I am exposed to and I believe there are many facets in this area and this is just the parts that has been shown to me so far and i share them in the hope that it helps others understand or other people can add to this.


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karl rashleigh

 2015/10/30 16:27Profile
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Joined: 2006/2/22
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 Re:

Hi All

I'm going to check out the you tube stuff, another really good book on the subject is the "Mask of Sanity" this helped us a lot to understand some stuff as well.

I suppose where i am sitting at the moment is that when dealing with these types of people in the secular world the only option i can see is avoidance.

In a church setting i don't fully have the answer but i can see that Jesus exposed them on some occasions and avoided them on other occasions as they set traps for him. The holy spirit can deal with them but in different ways, either by warning of traps set, rebuking them or keeping at a safe distance. I don't fear these types anymore as i rely on the holy spirit to lead my steps.

I was "chewing the cud" on whether or not he should be brought before the church leaders and that it gets dealt with in that environment but they are not a very strong bible based church and they have fallen for his charms already so it may not be the wisest move.


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karl rashleigh

 2015/10/31 3:51Profile





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