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Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Covenant and controversy - The great rage

If anyone on here is uncertain about the modern state of Israel being a miracle of re-birth, they should watch this film recently produced and check their hearts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0iTHHKqFRs

"Covenant and Controversy' is produced by FAI STUDIOS, exploring the history and theology of the enduring controversy over the Jewish people, the Land of Israel, and the city of Jerusalem. 'The Great Rage' features Dalton Thomas, Stephanie Quick, Michael Reynolds, Joel Richardson, Dr. Michael Brown, Barry Horner, and Scott Volk."


_________________
Dave

 2015/10/25 16:33Profile









 Re: Covenant and controversy - The great rage

I have a "little" problem with Dr. Michael Brown and the Hebrew Roots movement, but will listen to the video you posted.

The promises made to Israel regarding physical promises were based on a conditional old covenant - IF they obeyed, THEN the promises would be theirs. It was a national covenant. The only promise to "Israel" in the New Covenant aka ALL believers in Christ, is the Holy Spirit and eternal life. This is pointed out in Heb 11 and Gal 3.

The New Covenant in Christ, fulfilled the old covenant - it was no longer valid. Therefore; there is no national covenant with Israel. BUT - Israel or the Jews are grafted into Christ via the New Covenant, IF they accept Him as Messiah - not by the nation, but by the individual. As Eph 3 explains, we are one NEW MAN in Christ. There is neither Jew or Greek/gentile in Christ. A physical nation no longer has special favor with God, but only individuals in the blood of Christ.

When Paul speaks of "all Israel" will be saved, he is referring back to chap 9.

"Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom 9:6-8)

It is the Hebrew Roots people that accuse others of Replacement Theology.

Accusing people of being guilty of "replacement theology" is tantamount to claiming that someone is "anti-semitic" in HR circles. The idea is that if you believe that you have replaced the Jews you must hate them. It is a total kanard. I have been accused of it in my dealings with the HR crowd. I am "New Covenant". I love Jews, I love all people. I just don't like people who try to manipulate me by accusing me of being guilty of "replacement theology" and a closet anti-semite. HR is indeed a cult. It is sad to see Michael Brown trapped inside but he made his own prison.

The New Covenant to Judah and Israel is explained in the NT as to both Jews and gentiles. True Israel, according to Paul, are those who believe in Christ by faith - this is the inheritance of Abraham [Rom 9,10,11 and Gal 3]. It is no longer a physical nation, but a spiritual, holy nation of believers in Christ [1 Peter 2:9 and Eph 2].

The church [the body of Christ] includes all those who are believers ------ past, present, future, OT and NT. The "church" has not replaced Israel. All Jews who accept Christ are part of the church - that is the promise of Jer 31. Paul explains this as the mystery hid from the ages past. There is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ Jesus.

"This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt," (Act 7:37-39)

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:" (Rom 16:25-26)

"Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ). Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God," (Eph 3:4-10)

 2015/10/25 17:31
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Where there is many words, there is much error. Just watch the film.
It has nothing to do with Jewish roots movement!


_________________
Dave

 2015/10/25 17:36Profile









 Re: Covenant and controversy - The great rage

Watching it, now.

Well, after listening to 5 minutes of it, I am going to have to take notes. I will post my review in a few days, Lord willing.

 2015/10/25 17:47
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3417
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Covenant and controversy - The great rage


I bought the DVD and it's deep. It was enlightening and sad at the same time. Every Christian should watch it.


_________________
Lisa

 2015/10/25 18:09Profile









 Re:

I am going to keep writing my thoughts in this post until I finish the video.

I have been to the Yad Vashem memorial and I thought the same thing he thought, "false Christians did this". It is very sad and we should not minimize it by comparing it to other horrible atrocities in history, and there are many of them. In fact, many atrocities done in the name of Christ, yet these people were definitely not the church of Jesus Christ. Ok, back to the video. Thanks for posting this, Dave.

Note-1: The young man narrating says "it is a mystery why the Jews have been so vehemently hated." I don't think it is a mystery and I think the Christian knows who is behind this "vehement" hatred and why. The scriptures reveal the person behind it as Satan.

God had a calling on the Jews in the OT. I think Satan is perpetuating and playing off of that even today. I find it hard to believe that Satan is too deceived to understand that Israel is now spiritually found in Christ. I think he knows that but somehow finds value in continuing to persecute the Jews in order to keep all men's eyes on the physical, away from Christ and perhaps use it now to blame Christians so that in destroying the Jews, he really accomplishes his main goal of besmirching and then destroying the Church. Because, look how he has worked so hard from the 1st century on to destroy the Church.

Note-2: narrator says not all, but the majority of atrocities committed against the Jews can be put in the category of anti-semitism. Since Christians know who the true source behind these atrocities is, what would they in the natural, call their atrocities? I believe they call it an anti-christ spirit. They don't attribute their atrocities to men but rather the Spirit of anti-christ. And this is also taught to the Christian through the Scriptures. We know the Enemy is gunning for us everyday, but we don't blame it on men. And you can't fault the Jews for blaming it on men and accusing men of being anti-Semitic. They don't have discernment of the true source.

Note-3: "history is stained with Jewish blood"

Let's follow this in parallel with Christianity because I believe there are some important spiritual lessons here.

History is stained with Christian blood, too but it has now come to me how the Enemy has minimized this. We can talk about how he has done that later. The inquisition lasted 7 centuries and estimates of 50 million believers were killed in those 700 years. But, don't forget, there have been another 1300 years since Christ where many more have been killed. The point I am making is that Satan is systematically trying to wipe out true believers and Jews.

Note-4: Says that "Jew hatred has not died after the war but flourished"

Mike Brown is talking about how society sees them as different but secular and religious Jew alike were hated. He says there is no explanation in the natural for it. He is right and He knows better but so far at 16 minutes into the video he is not divulging the unnatural reason for all the Jew hatred.

Question: have there been other societies that were different from the main stream that were persecuted?

Note-5: Sadly, Mike Brown is not differentiating between Catholic crusaders and true Christians. He exclaims "where does this hatred come from that is so irrational?"

I sure hope he is going to answer his own question rather than "fanning the flames". It would be wrong for Mike Brown to not differentiate between true Christians and false christians and to reveal the spiritual source of this hatred and the only way to cure men of anti-semitism is to turn to Christ. You know it is spiritual in nature because there are Jews who turned against Jews.

Note-6: Mike Brown never once mentions Catholic anti-semitism. And, Hitler was Catholic and signed a concordat with the Vatican. But, it is always "Christian anti-semitism" that he speaks about.

 2015/10/25 18:22
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3417
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
julius21 wrote:
Note-2: narrator says not all, but the majority of atrocities committed against the Jews can be put in the category of anti-semitism. Since Christians know who the true source behind these atrocities is, what would they in the natural, call their atrocities?


You are only 16 minutes into it. They go over three persecutors in it.

The thing about this DVD (I believe), is all the narrators are Jewish. If that is true, this documentary is from a Jewish perspective, that is their truth.

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2015/10/25 21:17Profile









 Re:

Yes, I am almost home and will continue the video, soon. They talk about Muslim, Pagan and unfortunately, Christian (not Catholic) persecutors.

 2015/10/25 22:05
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Julius21

I am unable to download Youtube, So I am very interested and look forward to your overall review of the video.

 2015/10/25 23:10Profile









 Re: Julius21

Well, I am getting tired and will continue, tomorrow. I am about 30 minutes in and I think they have made an excellent case for the existence of anti-semitism and anti-zionism. Anti-semitism and anti-zionism today is unmistakeably rampant and they showcase this very well.

Here are some quotes I captured:


"All anti-semites are anti-zionist"

"Conspiracy theories about Israel being an aggressive, imperialistic force wanting to take over the world and slowly expanding their lands."

"Protocols of the Elders of Zion (fabricated by someone else). Henry Ford paid for and bought 500,000.00 worth of this publication and distributed it (as he saw it as fact). 1903 - This publication revealed plan by the Jews (council of elders) to take over the world by economics, financial institutions, etc. etc. Propaganda used against the Jewish people. 1933 it was being taught in German schools as fact."

Narrator says "it is a fabrication that there is a secret Jew World Order developing and that Jewish Zionists want to take over the world."

"Greatest lie of Anti-semitism is that the Jews are highly organized and conspiring to take over the world. No such thing. They were caught by surprise by the 3rd Reich. They had no idea what was going to happen in Germany, happened. They had no information service, no mode of communications and were taken completely by surprise."

"The reestablishment of the state of Israel has provided perfect cover for Anti-semites to continue their anti-semitism."

"Many think that the Jews are trying to rule the world in a deceptive and evil way."

Narrator is "not saying that any criticism of Israel is anti-semitic or anti-Zionist or that Israel should not be criticized. Mike Brown says he criticizes Israel all the time but not in an anti-semitic way."

"But look at the evidence. More joint resolutions from the U.N. against the tiny state of Israel than any other nation in the world."

"There is racism in the United Nations (against the State of Israel)."

"Most nations treated the Jews in their nation as if they cannot live in their midst. Then the Jews find their own homeland, but the anti-semitism continues now as anti-Zionism. Their true hearts are revealed in that they don't want Israel to exist at all."

"History tells us this, that whether they are in their lands or out of their lands, the nations of the world still loathe their (Jews) existence."

Very interesting so far...

Will continue tomorrow...
° ¸. ¸    :.  . • ○ °   .  * . .   ¸ .   °  ¸. * ● ¸ .° °  ¸. ● ¸ .   ° :.   . • °   .  * :. . ¸ . ● ¸       ° .   ° :.  . • ○    .  °  . ● ¸

 2015/10/26 0:09





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