Julius:

I know that, like most people, I am prone to inconsistency and procrastination. Part of living in the flesh I guess. So, I find it good to establish some disciplines in my life so that I can be consistent. My wife and I give when we are led to give, and where we are led to give. We have, as an act of faith, and as a point of self-discipline, decided to look at our income and give 10%. Most of the time this goes to our local body. Sometimes God leads us to give it elsewhere. Often God leads us to give beyond what we have established as our own minimum amount. We do this, not because we are legalistic, and not because we do not follow the leading of God in giving, but rather because we want to be faithful to God in our material blessings just as we would in our spiritual lives. In fact, giving is spiritual. I see no difference in what we do as discipline in giving and what we also do as discipline in studying the word, or in prayer, or in fellowshipping with other believers. I would never say, "Why should I impose upon myself the discipline of prayer, time in the word, or fellowship?" I have simply made up my mind that those things are vital (life giving) to my Christian walk. I have also made up my mind in the area of giving, that I am going to worship God through consistency.

I have chosen 10%, because it is an act of faith. It forces me to trust God for some big ticket items that I could easily be saving for if I were not to give 10%. It is simply walking in faith for me. It is also something that gives me great joy. I am overjoyed that I can give 10%. I think this is a good place to begin. I guess I could just as easily said that 5% is a good place to begin, or $100 a month, or whatever. I just think it is good to have a discipline in place and be consistent. I think God rewards that. He who is faithful in little will be made ruler over much. If I am faithful in the carnal things, mammon, then I am demonstrating my ability to be trusted with the true riches, the things of the Spirit of God. I feel like this is a valid NT principle that has been put into place.

The important thing is that we recognize that we are not bound to the tithe. We are commanded to give as we purpose in our heart, but only insofar that our motive is right in doing so. We are told we will be blessed if we give out of a heart that desires to bless God, but not if we give begrudgingly.

So I would never be legalistic and impose a certain percentage on anyone. This does not stop me from having an opinion about the benefit of discipline in giving. I cannot find any place in scripture where discipline is giving is denounced. Quite the contrary, I find that Paul encouraged the churches to be disciplined in their giving so that they might be ready to give to the need of other churches.

_________________
Travis

Mr. Bill:

I think you are right. We are so quick to say that God does not curse us with curse because we are not tithing, because this was under the Old Covenant. Yet we are very quick to latch onto the blessing side of the Old Covenant.

There is ample New Testament scripture to support the fact that God blesses us for our faithfulness in giving financially into the Kingdom, but I appreciate your post. It is true. We handle the word inconsistently sometimes.

And, it is true that there are many who claim these blessings, who are only able to claim them because thousands of people are giving them the "tithe". Sad but true.

IMO the storehouse is a physical OT concept with not NT parallel. We give into God's kingdom so that the work of the kingdom can be done. If we gave into the kingdom of God where God tells us to give, rather than giving out of obligation and necessity based on pressure from those collecting the "tithe", the kingdom of God would be a lot better off, and the ones who preach giving and tithing for their own selfish gain would find their source drying up. And the true men and women of God would find themselves supported in a way that would take a lot of pressure off of them.

_________________
Travis

2 Cor. 9 brother. If we sow sparingly, we will reap sparingly. But if we sow bountifully, we will reap bountifully. Every man is to give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity. God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you always have what you need so that you may abound unto good works. (Somewhat of a quick paraphrase. You might want to look it up for exact wording.)

If I give joyfully, as I purpose in my heart, God sees to it that I am blessed so that I can continue to give. He goes on to say that he ministers seed to the sower and bread for your food. If a man sows faithfully, God will see to it that he has more seed to sow, and will make sure that he can eat himself in the process. In fact, the thought is continuous from verse 6 through verse 13.

_________________
Travis

And of course, we need to make the point that giving is not about money, though it may include it, but in experience with Christians all over the world, historical writings, etc., giving rarely includes as the primary medium, money.

Jesus blesses us with the abundance of His spirit, the abundance of grace and love and compassion and understanding. He wants us to give of ourselves as He gave of Himself, every day to those he brings in our path and many, many Christians do not have the luxury of just handing someone money and sending them on their way.

Somehow, today there has arisen a counterfeit of what true giving is and today, it is indeed primarily mammon and not the abundance of the giftings of the Spirit or the character of Christ.

At least we can say in Western culture, giving is most always associated with money and this is a gross misrepresentation of the Scriptures and the character of Christ who by the way, never asked for or received a "tithe"?

The reason that the primary medium of giving has become cash is because of the business structure of religious organizations, today. Blankets, clothes, food, lodging for a night or two, hospitality, won't pay the bills or salaries of those who expect to make a living from the congregation.

Agreed Julius. Giving is so much more than just money. I remember a time when I could not afford to give like I wanted to give, so I esteemed my time as extremely valuable and I gave time and labor. I was so blessed for this. I still think of it that way.

_________________
Travis

Travis, this is even deeper, what about the poor, or folks all over the world that don't even have any money or a church around within thousand of miles. But these folks give their time helping others everyday, are these folks not going to Blessed? according to the tithe preachers their not.
I've often wondered how many pastors would quit, if someone else paid the churches bills directly to the providers, and the congregation brought in material needs for the church to hand out, and the pastors were put on a fixed income.

_________________
Bill

Mr. Bill.
All of our church leadership works full time jobs in order to live. Perhaps one day this will change and they can live of the gospel as they give their lives to the gospel. I think that we have, especially in this nation, viewed the church like a business and have been tempted with coveteousness where money is concerned. I guess what you are suggesting would separate the called from those who chose for themselves to be pastors.

_________________
Travis

You can never reform the religious system. They will continue. That is a fact.

The Spirit-filled Christian is in "giving" mode all the time and is judged by no one but God.

Satan's counterfeit kingdom is all about mammon.

Julius: I have to agree 100% with that last statement you made. Giving is a character attribute of God, and those who are dead to self and alive in Him will have His attributes. And, God is the judge. Amen Brother!

_________________
Travis