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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : What About The New Testament Commands?

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dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1717
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Is love not moral? Is it not commanded? Then it is a moral obligation.

Of course it is voluntary. We are bound to do it but not forced to do it.


_________________
Tim

 2015/10/17 1:10Profile









 Morality can never transform your heart or give you life.

Is Sin A Moral Violation?

WHAT DOES "SIN" MEAN?

The term in Greek and Hebrew means "to fall short of the goal, miss the mark, and to fall short of one's destiny."

When God created Adam, He gave Adam His own divine life and very nature. His goal for was for all of mankind to be in complete union with Him and to participate in His Divine Life fully and to enjoy communion with Him.

When Adam sinned he died to the Divine Life and union with God and no obedience to any law could ever restore him to the Divine Life.

The real issue was the loss of the Divine Life not the violation of the law. If sin is only a violation of the law, then morality consists only in obeying the law. Such morality could not contribute to one's salvation, but could only render one completely alienated from Christ.

The essence of sin should also not be understood as a rebellion against God's will in a legalistic sense, nor to fall below a given norm of behavior. To sin means to violate God's will. Sin means to fall short of the destiny (mark, goal) for which man was created. Since the "goal," "destiny" and "mark" for which man was created is full communion with God, to partake of the Divine Nature), sharing in His glory and immortality, then "sin" means to fall short of the destiny of the participation in God. Sin is not a moral failure.

SIN IS MORE THAN BREAKING A LAW OR A MORAL CODE.

Death is not a punishment of God: it is, rather, the result of man's failure to live up to his destiny of participating in God's immortality. Death is the primary manifestation of separation and alienation from God; it is also our principle source of bondage (Heb. 2:15) and the driving force behind individual sins. Thus death is the "sin of the world," and as a result of what Adam did, all of mankind is in a bondage to the manner in which the world deals with the question of death, as Paul again says, "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.." (Gal.4:3).

The Apostle expresses this concept of sin when he says that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". In Adam everyone has missed the mark and has fallen short of the goal of their destiny, which is to participate in the glory of God. In Adam, all mankind, therefore, became "sinful" and each person became a "sinner". Death is both cause and result of missing the goal of the immortality which results from union with God.

Do not forget it was Adam's and Eve's eating and participating in tree of knowledge of good and evil that was the cause of their death. After that mankind became obsessed with attempting to be moral by doing certain things that they considered to be good and avoiding certain this they considered to be bad. No morality could ever make them alive again.

Morality is not even the real issue. Sin than is not a moral issue at all and really has nothing to morality at all. True Christianity is the embracing, enjoying and participating in Christ's Life as much as he knows and sees. The true Christian who is participating in his union with God is not concerned about morality because he knows that it is Christ's Life alone that makes him fully acceptable to God.

Many religions, including the Christian religion, emphasize the embracing of a moral code with proper behavior to be acceptable to God. In fact they define morality as keeping the law and good proper conduct.

Now the truth is the embracing of any moral code becomes a substitute for the True Life that only comes from Christ. It also becomes a substitute for the transformation of the heart.

Anything that causes us to be arrogant, prideful and lead us to the judging and condemning other people is completely contrary to true Christianity, the Life of Christ.

Now this emphasis on embracing a moral code which seems to be very prevalent teaching in many denominations across America is a complete and utter lie. In fact, it really is heresy because it offers an alternate way to the Life of Christ and an alternative for the transformation of the heart.

This is a false gospel because the embracing of any moral code, law or even good behavior can never produce the life that is required. It has no effect on changing or transforming any person's heart. It is totally imposable for it to even affect the heart in the slightest way.

This moral code often becomes a platform on which many view and judge other people. Any person who is seen deviating from this code is criticized and many times even condemned.

When anyone moralizes any issue whatsoever they actually make any solution totally impossible.

True Christianity is not a moral force that shapes and controls a person life. True Christianity is not following the teachings of Christ. It is not the embracing of any doctrine, creed, law, code or anything seen as virtuous at all. It is the embracing of Christ's Life and enjoying the union with Him and to participate in His Divine Life fully and to enjoy communion with God.

Morality can never transform your heart or give you life. It is only by embracing Christ's Life that you experience total acceptance by God.

Any teaching which teaches the embracing of any moral code with proper behavior to be acceptable to God is total heresy

 2015/10/17 5:39
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724
Texas

 Re: Morality and Obligation are horrible - thank you brothers for helping me see

Have we forgotten the need to TEST ALL THINGS?

Did anyone TEST these statements made on this thread?

"obligation is not correct motivation

"obligation by definition : is an act or course of action to which a person is morally or legally bound."

"obligation is the fruit of law not fruit of love."

If these declarations are true, then John the Apostle promoted error - that's the implication of the declaration! If John used obligation in his writings and we affirm that "obligation is not correct motivation", then John promoted "the fruit of law, not the fruit of love."

Did John really promote "fruit of law"? Did he speak or write about our "obligation"? Let's put John to the test by our profound declaration.

I John 2:6 - "He who says he abides in Him, ought himself to walk just as He walked."

AHA! John is promoting the "fruit of law"! His words fail the test! We have declared that "obligation is not correct motivation, and the fruit of law, not the fruit of love"; therefore, John promoted obligation and legalism.

Now that we have found this "error" in one New Testament letter, perhaps we should look to make sure that there is not other places where the error of "oughtism" made its way into the our bible.

But first, let's make sure we did not misunderstand John. We know our translation uses the word "ought", but did the Greek word John used really mean "ought" as we understand it?
ὀφείλω (opheílō) "originally belonged to the legal sphere; it expressed initially one's legal and economic, and then later one's moral, duties and responsibilities to the gods and to men, or to their sacrosanct regulations. . . . opheílō expresses human and ethical responsibility in the NT"

Sadly, we must face the evidence that John erred! He clearly used a word that scholars affirm has "legal" and moral "duty". How did we miss this error for so many years? And since we have now proven that "obligation is a fruit of law not a fruit of love", should we not warn others about this error in John's epistle. Yes! But first, it might be good to see if it is an isolated error, or one that found its way into other parts of our New Testament.

OH NO! Our Lord used the same word - John 13:14 - "If I then your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet". This must have been an innocent mistake, for we have already determined that "obligation is not a fruit of love".

OH NO AGAIN! Paul, what were you thinking? "We who are strong ought to bear the failings of the weak" NO PAUL, don't you understand that obligation is not a good motivator. Paul you are promoting the fruit of law.

Paul did it again - "A woman ought to have her head covered." and again - "I ought to have been commended by you." But here is a HUGE MISTAKE - Paul wrote that husbands "OUGHT to love their wives" NO - HOW CAN THIS BE?
We have declared that "obligation is NOT a fruit of love" and Paul uses the term for moral obligation in the same sentence with love. How could we have been so blind to these errors slipping into our New Testament?

I am afraid to look for more errors

Thank you, those who contribute to this thread for helping me see that "obligation" should be rejected even if it is found in the New Testament.

makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/10/17 6:15Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1717
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Makrothumia, I ought to love that. And, l do.


_________________
Tim

 2015/10/17 8:34Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1539
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

If that made you smile, you ought to say so,...
So;)))


_________________
Fletcher

 2015/10/17 8:55Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: ///by dolfan on 2015/10/17 8:34:10
Makrothumia, I ought to love that. And, l do.///

Yes,

Tim does not agree with Makrothumia becuase he feels obligated to, but because Makrothumia post reflects dolfans understanding.

So the "ought" both as used in Dolfans response as well as in the obvious context 1 John 2:6 is not referring to an 'obligation' but rather as a natural response.



add: With obligation, the individual is not motivated within. He is bound by the rules and laws without.

 2015/10/17 9:06Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724
Texas

 Re:

If John had wanted to say "the man who says he abides in Him will naturally walk even as He walked" he could easily have done so and would have used the Future Indicative verb for "walk"; but, John chose the verb form to communicate what was on his heart, not what we want it to mean.

John was saying that professing to abide in Him, obligates a believer to walk as Jesus walked. He chose the specific Greek word for "obligation" and our wanting the sentence to mean something else only shows we disagree with his choice of words.

Makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/10/17 9:48Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings

There is an "obligation" to walk as JESUS walked. The Bible tells us we "ought to do this" it is a command to "walk as JESUS walked" So there is obligation to do so, what is so amazing and wonderful is that JESUS HIMSELF gives us the desire to follow and obey the command to "walk as HE walked."
Its not a chore for me to do so, because of who HE is, I want to "walk as HE walked."

GOD is so good, in HIM the obligation becomes a desire to "walk as HE walked. Praise GOD!

Just my thoughts
GOD bless
MJ

 2015/10/17 10:07Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724
Texas

 Re:

I believe I know what is attempting to be set forth by the opposition to the idea of "obligation".

Yes, to be compelled by the love of Christ, inspired, and moved to walk in the Lord's laws and His commandments is the end (goal) of the commandment.

Yet, since we have only a deposit of the full inheritance and not the entire salvation for which we still wait in expectant hope, we must still face our struggle with corruption.

The entire creation groans longing to set at liberty, and we too, having the first fruits of the Spirit, groan within ourselves. Oh, how it would be true, that Christ Jesus so overtakes me, so overwhelms every corrupt inclination that temptation bounces off me like bullets off Superman.

BUT! My body has NOT been redeemed, and even though my flesh was crucified with him and rendered powerless to dominate me, still it wars with my spirit and I suffer.

I am not able to do what I want all the time. I must deny what I want and yield to the voice of the Spirit of Christ within me. This is called our "present suffering. One day we will not have to war any longer, and we should all long for that day. Come Lord Jesus!

The fear of the Lord, and a holy sense of obligation, are good companions and I believe a fruit of His Spirit in us.
I believe my sense of obligation to live a holy life is inspired by Jesus living in me. Even with this inspiration there is a struggle with my flesh that must be dealt with like Paul - it must be beaten and made subject.

I must not make provision for the flesh, and I must put on the Lord Jesus Christ. He does not so overwhelm me that I have no will in the matter. I would never do it without Him, but He will not finish it without me.

makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/10/17 10:29Profile









 Re:

The life of Christ is extreme. When I became a new creature and began devouring the Word of God, I felt obligated to break from everything that was not of Christ. To break free from everything that is contrary to Him regardless of the cost. The Spirit of God led me to make financial restitution towards others. I felt completely obligated to do this and all of these actions on my part that I felt obligated to follow through on was because of the love of God that was shed abroad in my heart and the great forgiveness I received from Him.

Love sees the obligation of committed loyalty and faithfulness to Christ no matter how difficult the road. And love obligates me to preach the gospel to everyone. Freely you have received, freely give.

Rom 1:14 I am debtor (obligated) both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

And because of Christ there are many things I am also no longer obligated to do.

All words have their place, it is principles and thoughts (many words), that can be troubling.

 2015/10/17 10:33





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