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Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 #2 - This Is Exactly How i Feel SI! ...




Over on my initial thread …

#1 - This Is Exactly How i Feel SI! ...
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5518&forum=35

Brother Colin Wilson, from Scotland, wrote a letter to all saints strangely unsettled in our spirits about there being something seemingly out of whack in the “modern” Church of Christ … He speaks of certain saints feeling lonely tho surrounded by other Christians, because those others just don’t seem to have the same disturbance of spirit. In fact they seem to be just happily getting on with their lives. This just adds to the perplexity to the point that one starts to question, “Is it just me? Why am I feeling this way? There must be something wrong with me; as most others seem to be getting along OK." … Are you one of these saints? … Have you asked yourself these questions? …

Our Lord has just taken me thru a little book entitled [b]“Prophetic Untimeliness” by Os Guinness[/b], and I suggest that you get it … It will not only explain to you why your spiritual spider senses are tingling (in short being that you see that we’ve left out first love, and the first works, in pursuit of such carnal worldly relativisms as “power, prestige, practicality and profitability) but the blessing, obligation and duty of your being one of the rare ones that Holy Spirit is even capable of affecting your spiritual attention … If “He that hath an ear” can only hear what the Spirit is saying unto the churches, and Holy Spirit uses us to speak what needs to be said, then it stands to reason that if you hear then you must speak …So why don’t you? … Why haven’t you? … Scared? …

C. S. Lewis calls such observant saints “resistance thinkers” … This is a quote from brother Os’s book …

[b]“Resistance thinking is a term adapted from a 1945 essay by C S Lewis on “Christian Apologetics”. It is a way of thinking that balances pursuit of relevance on the one hand with a tenacious awareness of those elements of the Christian message that don’t fit in with any contemporary age on the other. Emphasize only the natural fit between the gospel and the spirit of our age and we will have an easy, comfortable gospel that is closer to our age than to the Gospel – all answers to human aspirations, for example, and no mention of self denial and sacrifice” [/b] … Ouch! … Sound familiar? …

In this age of “ningy, ningy, feel good, Christ Genie Christianity” the thoughts we’re thinking of “Hey let’s get back to our just loving our Jesus for Jesus, lets get back to bearing our crosses for Him, lets get back to proclaiming His saving Gospel at the discard of health & wealth, let’s get back to seeking His face and feet … let’s get back to sound doctrine … lets REPENT unto REVIVAL so that we’ll even have the Power to get back …Whatever self sacrifice it takes saints please lets get back” is considered “regressive” and not “progressive” … What you’re doing is “resistance thinking” and you can think all you want … You become the enemy tho if you ever become capable of being moved by Holy Spirit to becoming a “resistance speaker” …

Resistance speakers, under the divine control of Holy Sprit, are public enemy #1 to the status quo of anyone worshiping at the altar of “what’s happening now”, but more important and sinister is the fact that we become the arch enemy of the vile power behind the “status quo” … Brother Os points out that the greatest “resistance thinkers/speakers” recorded were the OT prophets, the forerunners of all other divinely inspired watchmen and trumpet blowers great and small throughout the subsequent church age … There have been numerous discussions here on SI about the much maligned calling of the prophet, and I hate satan with all “get out” for sullying the calling so but is sure do understand why he has … Kill the credibility of the resistor/resistance before it ever arrives, now that’s master tactical supernatural battle strategy! … It was said on the “Prophetic Credentials” thread (I can’t remember by whom now) that the “calling” of prophet (and I paraphrase) was not necessary to “individuals” anymore because ALL saints of God are capable of hearing, calling to repentance and warning … Brother Os agrees, and says something very interesting in his book …

[b]Quote:[/b]
[b]“Sadly the word in these paragraphs that causes the most discomfort is “prophetic”. “Prophets are the plague of today, and perhaps of all time, because it is impossible to tell a true prophet from a false one”, the Jewish writer Primo Levi wrote. “I don’t believe in prophets, even though I come from a heritage of prophets". Doubtless we are right to be wary of false prophets, because the modern parade of counterfeits is as long as the list of true ones is short. In many Christian circles, "prophetic" is shorthand for uncheckable charismatic hunches or for any left-wing, radical critique of the status quo.[/b]

[b]But the place of the prophet as the one who speaks the word of the Lord is too important to give up, even with the threat of counterfeits. We might distinguish capital-P "Prophets" from small-p "prophets". [/b]

[b]In this second and more modest sense we are all called to be prophets interpreting events from the perspective of faith and under the aspect of eternity, and always with an eye to what we should do, not simply know. We may be wrong when we speak in this way, and we must always be open to correction but we have the right and the duty to set things forth as we see them under God”.[/b]

First off I don’t necessarily agree with the Jewish writer … In the NT sense it’s pretty obvious to me who the false ones are … They’re the ones that’s telling us everything is peachy keen and cool when Holy Sprit is intimating to the true prophets that it’s far from cool and in fact is bordering on the divine hand of correction… There the ones that’s making big names, empires and bucks off of ear tickling health and wealth when Holy Spirit is intimating to the true prophets holiness, purity, self sacrifice, prayer, and much needed fall down on our faces before God repentance towards a fresh out pouring of His reviving Holy Spirit …

Second, I don’t doubt that “we are all called to be prophets interpreting events from the perspective of faith and under the aspect of eternity” but I beg the question, “Why hasn’t this happened before things have gotten as bad as they are now, and even more important why isn’t there an uproar in masse now that things are now critical” …To me if the man of God is proclaiming “repentance from dead works and weeping return back to first love of Christ” while hopping on one foot, with both hands tied behind his back, proclaiming thru a gag anyhow, and dodging an enormity of continuously chucked stones by the masses, but by the power of God is still standing, then chances are in my book He’s for real … Don’t see many of those folks today and one doesn’t have to wonder why …Resistance saying draws way more heat than the average saint is willing to bear, so tho the calling may be to many the answering is but by few …

I think many are called to resistance thinking, but like Gideon’s army are dwindled when it comes to actually resistance confrontation (speaking)” … So the major question becomes, “Can God depend on you, in His decency and order, to address what He’s showing you … Can He depend on you to first swallow the bitter pill of His intense examination toward your personal repentance and holiness so that He can send you forth with the formula of Joel chapter 2”? …This is where the rubber meets the road, and the cause of the “great silence” … If you understand what this thread is saying will you finally answer like Isaiah, “Lord here I am send me”? …

I think there are four types of saints … Those who escape a personal responsibility towards what’s going on down here (especially in the Church) by keeping there separatist heads in the clouds while piously looking there noses down on all else below … Those who are so easily misled towards worshipping Golden Calves… Those who stick there escapist heads in the sand and say if they want to worship a Golden Calf then let them, lets just mind our own business … And those who as their brothers keeper see the sin as sin, are alarmed, will lovingly (even tough lovingly) confront his brother to the need of repentance and most certainly warn his brother of God’s displeasure and chastisement if he continues … And if he does continue will pray for his brother till such time God says cease, the brother turns around, or the wages of sin are paid … I’m just nut-so enough to be of this latter ilk, and am moved by the Spirit of God (believe it or not) to ask you if you’d like to “open your mouth” and join His little Gideon band?

According to brother Os’s book there is a line drawn in the sand (delineated by Scripture) that separates our faithfulness to Him and our stepping over into worldliness, dared by satans malicious urgings that in order to remain relevant Christ Church must bend to his world instead of vice-versa, and much of the (Western) Church has crossed that line … The question that begs answering is how does something founded by He that is “timeless” get suckered into being concerned with being “timely”? … My answer is, “When we take our eyes of the “timeless” One”, but brother Os really breaks it down …

[b]Quote:[/b]
[b]“By our uncritical pursuit of relevance we have actually courted irrelevance; by our breathless chase after relevance without a matching commitment to faithfulness, we have become not only unfaithful but irrelevant; by our determined efforts to redefine ourselves in ways that are more compelling to the modern world than are faithful to Christ, we have lost not only our identity but our authority and our relevance. Our crying need is to be faithful as well as relevant.[/b]

[b]Our timeliness lies in the untimeliness of rejecting modern timeliness. Our moment and our hour depend upon our turning from the spurious models of the modern world to the real moment and the real hour seen only under God. But we need to be aware that the gain in perspective is a gain in pressure. As we will see, relevance with faithfulness has a steep cost, but those prepared to pay it win the prize of true relevance. [/b]

[b]This book is written for those for whom that “reformation” is a supreme concern and desire.[/b]

Anybody else out there feeling that the modern Church of Christ has become also guilty of selling “indulgences”? … Any Martin Luther’s out there capable of being used by Holy Spirit to “just say NO”?

Just the other night I was flipping thru the channels and came across Jentzen Franklin hosting (I kid you not) a youth rally called “Pimp My Youth Group” … It was such a scary thing to see with all these supposed “hip-hop Christians” aping satan’s latest demonic fashions for the young, with a “master-pastor” dressed up like a “pimp”, with supposed adult leadership blasting any “resistance thinkers” with “this is a new day and way in the up and coming Church of our Lord Jesus Christ” … Now I know it was the Lord’s will for me to see this, as brother Jantzen will be getting a “resistance” letter whether he hears Holy Spirit or not, for what was most poignant about what I saw was that I had just read this out of brother Os’s book the night before:

[b]Quote:[/b][b]Some have spent the last decade reinventing churches furiously according to the dictates of the “baby boomer” generation. Others are now pronouncing that passé’ and are tackling the task with the same enthusiasm to court younger audiences”.[/b]

Audiences? … I thought the relevancy of the Gospel to all generations was a spiritual conversion via confessing with the mouth and accepting with the heart that Jesus Christ is the only true Way, Truth and Life Son of God, who no ones gets to the Father except thru Him … Faithfulness seeks converts, untempered relevance seek audiences … mammon paying audiences …

And one last thing in case you’re wondering yes this was on TBN, which brings me to this … Now I can see where as a saint one can tune out regular TV, but how in the world can one know what to pray for or against on so called Christian TV if one tunes it out … Tho it’s not a “fun” assignment I’m glad that our Lord has not allowed me to be a cloud separatist or sand escapist because somebody’s got to man the walls saints … Somebody’s got to shout warnings and blow trumpets, and if you’re either expecting to be made perfectly-perfect before allowing His use of you as spokesman, or if you’re a hearer expecting a perfectly-perfect spokesman with His “thus saith the Lord”, then you’ll never be used, and most assuredly you’ll never hear until the chastisement is upon us for continually sacrificing “His children” in the fire! …

If you will indulge this long thread just a wee bit more I want to leave you with this last …

[b]Quote:[/b]
[b]“A VITAL SECRET OF THE CHURCH’S POWER AND GLORY in history lies in its calling to be (against the world, for the world). C. S. Lewis calls this the two-edged character of the Christian faith. Based on the twin truths of creation and the fall, Christians see everything with a bifocal vision. They view reality not only in terms of what the world was created to be but also of what it has come to be. As a result, the Christian faith is simultaneously both world affirming and world-denying. [/b]

[b]When the church is weak or careless in maintaining this dual stance, it leads directly to cowardice and corruption, decadence and decline. But when the church is faithful, it lies at the core of her power to transform and renew culture.[/b]

[b]The faith world of John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards, John Jay, William Wilberforce, Hannah More, Lord Shaftesbury, Catherine Booth, Hudson Taylor, D. L. Moody,Charles Spurgeon, Oswald Chambers, Andrew Murray, Carl Henry, and John Stott is disappearing. In its place a new evangelicalism is arriving in which therapeutic self concern overshadows knowing God, spirituality displaces theology, end-times escapism crowds out day-to-day discipleship, marketing triumphs over mission, references to opinion polls out weigh reliance on biblical exposition, concerns for power and relevance are more obvious than concern for piety and faithfulness, talkof reinventing the church has replaced prayer for revival, and the characteristic evangelical passion for missionary enterprise is over powered by the all-consuming drive to sustain the multiple business empires of the booming evangelical subculture. [/b]

[b]Many evangelicals are blind to the sea change because they know only the present and have little sense of history, even their own”.[/b]

But we that understand exactly what’s being said here can not claim ignorance to the latter sentence can we? … Especially so since Holy Spirit has brought you to this modern day cyber museum called SERMONINDEX that houses so much history of the old “trumpet sounding warriors” mentioned above, and then some …

And now He’s brought you to this thread of “a voice crying out in the wilderness” to his fellow wilderness dwellers beseeching “What will you do NOW that Holy Spirit has made it plainer to you the cause of your dissatisfaction with the current situation of the Church”? … He’s given you this dissatisfaction! … Can He now count on you to “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in My holy mountain”? … Can He?

Modern day Christian world centered empirical minded progressives may not like the fact that “children of God” are pointing out that they have on no clothes, but the bottom line is when we’ve stepped as far over the line as we currently have as His Body Holy Spirit always sends those to point us “back to Christ” via a “u-turn” called REPENTANCE and a re-empowerment called REVIVAL! …

Be ye “doers” of the Word, and not just “hearers” only … Amen


Br. Rahman :beard:

 2005/5/6 14:03Profile









 Re: #2 - This Is Exactly How i Feel SI! ...

Quote:
In this second and more modest sense we are all called to be prophets interpreting events from the perspective of faith and under the aspect of eternity, and always with an eye to [b]what we should do[/b], not simply know. We may be wrong when we speak in this way, and we must always be open to correction but we have the right and the duty to set things forth as we see them under God”.



This has been exercising my heart for a long time - What should I [b]do[/b]? I am very relieved by the message in this and #1 yesterday.

Quote:
Our timeliness lies in the untimeliness of rejecting modern timeliness. Our moment and our hour depend upon our turning from the spurious models of the modern world to the real moment and the real hour seen only under God. But [b]we need to be aware that the gain in perspective is a gain in pressure[/b]. As we will see, relevance with faithfulness has a steep cost, but those prepared to pay it win the prize of true relevance.



Indeed. This is what has been holding me back, but, I am still moving forward. God calls us on!

 2005/5/6 15:20
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: #2 - This Is Exactly How i Feel SI! ...



Additional excerpts from Os Guinness's book: Prophetic Untimeliness

How The Salt Has Lost It’s Savor …
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5563&forum=35

 2005/5/10 14:13Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Results of Pursuing Relevance at the cost of Christian integrity ...


[b]Quote from" "Prophetic Untimeliness"[/b]

[b]Many Christian leaders have become trendy. Obsessed with the new they have produced only novelty. Staggering from one high of excitement to another, they have become jaded. [/b]

[b]Evangelicals were once known as the serious people. It is sad to note that today many evangelicals are the most superficial of religious believers, lightweight in thinking, gossamer-thin in theology, and avid proponents of spirituality-lite in terms of preaching and responses to life. What started out as breathless and excited is ending as exhausted and out-of-breath.[/b]

The only sustaining power to the Church, the Bride of Christ, is the Power of God the Holy Spirit ... Any other type power is but a fleeting rush ...

 2005/5/11 13:05Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: #2 - This Is Exactly How i Feel SI! ...


This is my final excerpt installment from [b]Os Guinness’s [/b] book, [b]“Prophetic Untimliness”: [/b]

Lord ... in Today's Church System of round holes, why do i feel like a square peg? …
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5578&forum=35


:beard: ... Enjoy!

 2005/5/12 17:09Profile





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