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Discussion Forum : Miracles that follow the plow : KENTUCKY CLERK JAILED

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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497
Mississippi

 Re:

Julius,

Check out this series by Walter Beachy: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35408&forum=40

This is a series given by a Mennonite Historian - I know Walter Beachy quite well.

Here is one:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/lutherans-seek-forgiveness-for-persecution-of-anabaptists-46018/

I posted this as an answer to your pointed question, not to lend any credibility to the Mennonite Church USA.

The book, "The Anabaptist Story" by William R. Estep is a fine resourse.

It may be of interest to you to know that the western concept of freedom of thought and religion can be traced back to the Anabaptists in the 1525 - onward. They believed one should have the freedom to make the choices concerning faith and how it will translate into life situations. They did not always do it perfectly but the concept was foreign in their day and time. The Lutherans and Catholics required allegiance of the people in their districts and failure to do so invited persecution and they did kill.

Hope this will answer your question.If not, ask and maybe I can help you more.

God bless.

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2015/9/4 13:15Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497
Mississippi

 Re:

Anabaptist believed one "ought to obey God rather then men." Peter said this and this is my understanding and belief as well. Anabaptist lived it and because they did they were hounded, pressured, had to run for their lives. The greatest persecutors were the Reformers and Catholics. Today, I do not hold the modern Lutherans and Catholics responsible for what their forbears did - each person will have to give an account before God Almighty for what they personally did - not what their forebears did.

I do believe we are in a war where our physical lives will be threatened because of our faith, belief in God's Word. It would be easy to be silent in face of supposed opposition, but the prophets of old did not - John the Baptist lost his head because he confronted Herod about his marriage relationship. Peter and others were bold and they were jailed.

(It should be noted that Peter was not always faithful either - he denied Jesus at one point, but he repented. Big difference.)

My understanding...

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2015/9/4 13:24Profile









 Re:

Thanks for the links, Sandra. Maybe, I misunderstood you, I thought you said Richard Wurmbrand persecuted the Anabaptists.

 2015/9/4 13:59
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497
Mississippi

 Re:

No, Wurmbrand did not persecute but he was a Lutheran and historically they did persecute. The reason for his affliation with the Lutherans is because he said this was the first 'form of Christianity' he encountered. The fellow was a Jew, wicked, an atheist, and the fact that God was able to make a new creature out of such rough material is nothing short of amazing, in my opinion.

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2015/9/4 14:37Profile









 The Higher Authority

Really appreciate all your thoughts and comments on this situation. Many of us could have our pasts thrown up at us with people ready to stone us, but if we have been forgiven by our Lord, he will give us a ready answer and we can rebuke the enemy of our souls who seeks to condemn.

Marriage in our country has been defined as one man and one woman for probably over 200 years, right? The Mormons had to submit to that authority back in the late 1800's to become a state. Polygamy was against the law. Sodomy and homosexuality was against the law, written in the books, derived from Judeo-Christian roots in our country.

Over the years the enemy has sought to eradicate the laws of God, which he cannot, but people can twist and change laws to suit changing mores. Still, as you all understand the Supreme Court of the United States in 2015 changed U.S. laws but they cannot change God's laws.

Kim Davies, as a new believer, and aren't they all usually the most evangelical and in love with Jesus, could not and would not give into this arbitrary move of the Supreme Court, she chose to bow only to a Higher Authority, our Supreme Judge and God.

She could have quit her job. She chose jail. She stood on principle...God's principle and I know He will honor her stand. I will pray for her and her family.

Once I almost had a great job serving the elderly, but I had to sign a bunch of statements. All of them were OK except one. That one said I could not share my faith with anyone. So I went to the supervisor and said, "This one I cannot promise I will not do". Then she suggested that I just lie on that one. Well, I couldn't do that either, so I didn't take that job, but the Lord gave me another one.
He does honor these decisions we make for His glory.
L

 2015/9/4 15:59









 Re:

Quote:

by ginnyrose on 2015/9/4 14:37:22

No, Wurmbrand did not persecute but he was a Lutheran and historically they did persecute. The reason for his affliation with the Lutherans is because he said this was the first 'form of Christianity' he encountered. The fellow was a Jew, wicked, an atheist, and the fact that God was able to make a new creature out of such rough material is nothing short of amazing, in my opinion.



Ok, that makes more sense to me.

By the way, I'm sure you will agree that it's nothing short of a miracle that God was able to make you and I a new creature, too.

Blessings

 2015/9/4 17:26









 Re:

I don't know much what it means to be a county clerk in the US. But if I understand TMK's post correctly they have to take an oath to uphold the law and carry out duties
I know the marriage law has recently changed but it is still a clerk's duty to uphold it. I know most might disagree but i believe the only option for her in this situation would be to resign.
I read many comments about her in one of our News site and many commented she is entitled to have her own views and believes but in a payed position you can't make your own rules, she was not asked to break the law but to uphold it.

PP wrote : "Kim Davis is an elected official ... We need more elected officials willing to stand there ground and represent the views of there constituents."
There are probably different views about this one as well. I can also see a few biblical problems and conflicts here . As a Christian i couldn't represent the views of the world, I could simply not be an elected official. We also shouldn't be unequaly yoked .

Whatever the outcome with Kim Davis will be i can't see how this will cause people to repent and how it will advance the Kingdom of God.

In Hebrews 11:13 we read "they were foreigners and strangers on earth..." something we need to think about in these last days.

v16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one

Blessings

 2015/9/4 19:11
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1644
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

True, she could resign. It would not be dishonorable. It would not reflect poorly on Christ.

But, we have a Constitution that says Congress shall make no law establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. That has been extended by our judiciary to apply to all branches of government at every level in our system.

Kim Davis is asserting that her "free exercise" is meaningless in the face of an entirely judicially manufactured "right" to gay marriage. A right that is not in the constitution and was made up out of the thin air is now trumping a right that is expressly stated in our Bill of Rights. If free exercise is this easily defeated, then our First Amendment is truly history.

It may be "about Jesus" in Kim Davis's mind. But, this is a denouement of sorts, a putting front and center once and for all exactly what free exercise really means now that a superseding right has been created by the judiciary. It will likely mean a lot "about Jesus" as we go forward under this newly heavy foot and iron hand of Federal government over conscience.

Jesus said "render unto Caesar" because that which bore Caesar's image was Caesar's to dominate. We do not bear Caesar's image. We bear God's image, and He alone and exclusively has say over us as to what is and what is not. For Kim Davis, I believe, to bow to the image of Caesar at the expense of the image of Jesus shown through her to the world would be a disgrace to her own heart. Not that I think she would be a disgrace if she yielded, but I think she has at least some understanding of the stakes.



_________________
Tim

 2015/9/4 21:35Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: ///Whatever the outcome with Kim Davis will be i can't see how this will cause people to repent and how it will advance the Kingdom of God.///

She seems to feel that she is in the will of God with her choice.

When I was sleeping last night. Some images flashed before me, It was the expressions on her face in all of the recent photos of her.
I reliezed by those images flashed before me that she is not doing this as to be seen of men or to look like the Big hero of the faith. She is doing it because she feels it is the will of God.

Lets not be critical but in support of Christians willing to follow there conscience through persecution.

 2015/9/4 23:05Profile









 Re:

Soon the State will be out of the marriage business when the Federal government takes over responsibility for it. States are losing all their rights to ever increasing Federalism. The Supreme court essentially told The states that they don't have jurisdiction anymore. The govt would like to take over all law enforcement, too and are working towards that end by sowing discord, confusion and sadly, harmful rhetoric. When law enforcement becomes federalized, these men and women will be transferred all around the country just like the military is. You won't have local people who serve you but maybe police from San Francisco or Portland working in your little town. And of course the Federal govt will want to create yet another big union. Christians will increasingly be ostracized and pushed out of govt jobs.


Texas Gov. Greg Abbott: States, Not Federal Government, Traditionally Regulate Marriage

AUSTIN, Texas—Texas Gov. Greg Abbott says the federal government has no business regulating the issue of marriage.

“In the United States Constitution and the amendments there are more than 7,500 words,” Abbott explains to The Daily Signal. “Not a single one of them mentions the word marriage or gives the federal government authority to regulate marriage. Instead, it has always been left to the states under the 10th Amendment.”

Abbott is not shy about his Christian faith. Ever since the Supreme Court decided to rule on the constitutionality of gay marriage, the Texas governor has been outspoken in his disagreement.

In the days after the ruling, he sent a memo directed to department leaders, which stated in part that, “individuals doing business with the state cannot be discriminated against because of their religious beliefs.” Liberal groups complained that he was leaving the door open to discrimination against same-sex couples. But Abbott believes cases like the Hobby Lobby Supreme Court decision, which reaffirmed the religious liberty rights of Christian business owners, make it clear that religious liberty must be protected at all costs.

“Regardless of whatever this decision was concerning marriage, religious liberties are mandated to be protected by the First Amendment. There are a lot of cases that have already dealt with this issue in other arenas where a person’s religious liberty, whether it be a pastor or an individual or a business gets protected so long as there are reasonable accommodations that are made.”

 2015/9/4 23:20





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